Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver.

My guest: Nicholas Thompson is the CEO of The Atlantic and former editor-in-chief of WIRED. He's the author of the best-selling book (and one of my favorites of the year), The Running Ground. Nick shares why great leaders must balance being decisive with staying open to being wrong, how to build teams that challenge your thinking without creating chaos, and why the most important skill for the next decade is knowing what questions only humans can answer.

Key Learnings

Consistency Over Intensity Creates Results - If you go out there every day, six or seven days a week, and a couple days you push yourself really hard, you get faster. There's no two ways about it. If you don't do that, you don't get faster. It's a very good reminder that you can get a lot done if you just go and allot time to pushing yourself.

Recommendation letter written by the Stanford faculty about Nick's dad to be a Rhodes Scholar: “Scotty Thompson is the kind of young man that comes along only once in approximately ten years. I cannot recall ever having known a student who possessed the same combination of intelligence, creativity, energy, drive, and dedication. He has attempted more, achieved more, than anyone we have studied– including some who now hold high office. He is generally conceded among those who have observed the student body since World War II to be the outstanding leader of the era. I think it likely that in the entire history of Stanford campus life, he has had no near rival since Herbert Hoover as an undergraduate.”

Also about Nick's Dad: Tracy Bennett, one of his graduate students, said, “He was flamboyant, gently endearing, annoyingly arrogant, piercingly intelligent, entertaining, and more. I’d never met a man, nor had a professor, who was clearly so brilliant and at the same time so precariously insecure.”

His grandfather, Frank Thompson, placed second in the Southern California extemporaneous speaking contest held at Whittier College. First place was Richard Nixon.

Parenting — “Nothing makes me more worried about failure than parenting.” “Parenting is suffused with regrets, confusion, and mistakes. But when I run by, I know my children are rooting for me to succeed with infinite love and enthusiasm.”

Running hard... Pushing yourself. Why do it? “Discipline builds discipline. Discipline is cumulative.”

Sometimes You Have to Trick Yourself - I ran 10:48 because the track was bigger than I thought, and I didn't realize how fast I was going. If I had known I was running at a 5:23 pace, I would've shut down. My body would've started to hurt. Sometimes you can't let yourself know what you're actually doing, or you'll get scared.

Hiring at The Atlantic - The people he hires at The Atlantic share four must-have attributes: A spirit of generosity. A force of ideas. They're relentlessly hard workers. And they have an edge: an anxiety about getting great work done. That last one stuck with me. The best people aren't just talented... They're driven by a productive anxiety to do work that matters.

Becoming CEO of The Atlantic: The Search & Selection: The Atlantic conducted a yearlong search after President Bob Cohn left in fall 2019. When owners Laurene Powell Jobs and David Bradley announced Thompsont in December 2020, they said "Nick is singular; we've seen no one like him" and that he brought "a surround-sound coverage of relevant experience."

Move at an Uncomfortable Pace - You don't get anything you want by being comfortable. If you're working in a way that feels easy and setting deadlines where everything seems smooth, you're not growing, you're not learning, you're not getting there. That's a lesson from running, and it's a good lesson for work.

Set Audacious Goals - We're setting two extremely big goals at The Atlantic. Our projections don't suggest we're going to hit them. But the same was true last time when I said we're gonna get profitable and a million subscribers in three years. We got there. Sometimes having a really big goal motivates you and forces all the tough choices.

Continuous Forward Motion Matters Most - When I realized yesterday's marathon was going badly, I kept telling myself: continuous forward motion. Sometimes the goal becomes just finishing. It's better to make a full drop in pace and hold that than to slowly slide backwards every mile once you know you won't hit your goal.

Every Extra Word Is an Opportunity to Lose People - Every extra word, every extra thought, every extra detail that doesn't propel the story needs to be removed. This book is 75,000 words, but there's 60,000 words I cut. Is this sentence absolutely essential? No? It's gone. That's storytelling, and that's leadership communication.

The Cocktail Party Test for Storytelling - If you describe what you're writing at a cocktail party, do people come towards you or walk away? I can talk about my 2005 cancer diagnosis and 2007 marathon, and people lock in. I talk about my 2009 marathon, and no one cares. Test what has emotional resonance with your friends.

Write and Speak To Help People SEE a Movie - When somebody's reading, they're visualizing it in their mind's eye. Can you see it? Can you feel it? If you can't run a movie in your head about what I'm writing, it shouldn't be on the page. Help them visualize it—the little white house in Concord, walking around Walden Pond.

Hiring: Spirit of Generosity and Force of Ideas - Spirit of generosity means can they work with people? Will they be territorial or figure out what's best for the org? Force of ideas means are you smart and sharp? I also want edge—a little bit of productive paranoia. Not complacent, but kind to everybody.

Discipline Can Show Up in Different Ways - My editor-in-chief hasn't run a mile in 25 years. Is he disciplined? Hell yeah. Works all the time, focused on every sentence. You can have mental discipline without physical discipline. I try to get the most out of different kinds of people with different strengths.

Keep Going - This is the hardest time to graduate because of AI and uncertainty. Find things you're passionate about and really focus on them. My twenties weren't great professionally. I found journalism, but I wasn't good at it yet. Keep pushing, and eventually things turn out for the best.

Reflection Questions

• What would happen if you moved at an uncomfortable pace in your most important work?
• Where are you setting deadlines that feel too easy and smooth?
• Are you ruthlessly cutting everything that doesn't propel your story forward? What sentence, meeting, or project exists simply because it always has, not because it's essential?

Former Episodes Referenced

#603 - Michael Easter - The Comfort Crisis

#611 - Codie Sanchez - Main Street Millionaire

#654 - Jake Tapper - Be So Good They Can't Ignore You

Time Stamps:

02:05 Nick's NYC Marathon Experience

03:35 Nick's Father's Legacy

11:43  Running and Leadership

17:08 Overcoming Cancer and Running Again

19:24 The Importance of Setting “Stretch” Goals 

21:30 Marathon Challenges and Lessons

27:09 The Warrior Athlete and Early Lessons

28:54 Nick's Role as CEO of The Atlantic

29:30 Unique Talents for a CEO Role

30:42 Balancing Multiple Interests

32:30 Writing 'The Running Ground'

37:37 Crafting a Compelling Story

41:24 Storytelling Tips for Leaders

44:15 Hiring the Right People

51:55 Running and Parenting

54:06 Advice for New Graduates

56:07 EOPC

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver.

My Guest: Suzy Welch is known for co-founding the Jack Welch Management Institute and writing bestsellers like 10-10-10: A Life Transforming Idea. Her career includes roles as an editor-in-chief for Harvard Business Review, a crime reporter, and a professor. She teaches at NYU and is the best-selling author of Becoming You. 

Key Learnings

Purpose Requires Realism, Not Just Passion - Everyone wants to be the drummer in Disturbed, but that guy's good at drumming. My whole methodology is about realism. You have to know what your values are, what your interests are, but you better be good at it or forget it. Otherwise, it's a hobby.

Values Are Choices, Not Virtues - Most people confuse values and virtues. Virtues are things like integrity, courage, and thankfulness... Behaviors we all should have more of. Values are choices about how you want to live, work, and relate. It's a value if it would drive who you married, what job you took, and where you went on vacation.

There are 16 Measurable Values - Values exist on a continuum like a DNA profile. Scope reflects how exciting a life you want. Radius is how much you want to change the world systemically. Belovedness is how important an intimate relationship is to you. Work centrism is whether you love work for work's sake or if it's just a means to an end.

Men Over 32 Value Romantic Relationships Most - We just got data showing that for men over the age of 32, belovedness is their number one value. It's much lower for women. Only 50% of people have family centrism in their top five values—we assume everyone shares our values, but they don't.

Your Authenticity Gap Reveals Your Pain - You could hold the value of scope as number one, but not be able to live it right now because of your job or family situation. That gap between what you value and what you're living—we call that your authenticity gap. If you've got a big one, you know it because it hurts.

Gen Z's Top Value Is Self-Care - 75% of Gen Z have self-care, wellbeing, pleasure, and leisure as their top value. Their top three are self-care, authentic self-expression, and helping others. Meanwhile, hiring managers want achievement, scope, and work centrism. The overlap is 2%.

Aptitudes Are Your Brain's Dominant Hand - We have nine cognitive aptitudes preset by age 15. Are you a generalist or a specialist? A future focuser or a present focuser? A brainstormer or someone who comes up with one fully baked idea per year? It's painful to be a generalist in a specialist job.

Your Personality Is How The World Experiences You - Your personality is not the list of adjectives you write about yourself. It's how the world experiences you. When I did my 360 feedback, people said I was the hurricane, not the calm at the center. I had to learn to communicate better the thoughts I had, and learn to be less chaotic. 

Everyone Writes Themselves As The Hero - A police lieutenant once told me: everyone writes the story of their life with themselves at the center as the hero. No matter what story we tell ourselves, we always cast ourselves as the hero. That's why self-awareness is so hard and why we need testing, not just self-reflection.

The Aperture Problem: Kids Only Know Five Jobs - When kids come out of high school, they only know about five jobs, two of which are their parents. By college it goes up to seven. By grad school, MBAs are thinking about two or three options—banking, consulting, or tech. There are 135 industries and thousands of types of work nobody tells them about.

Great Leaders Don't Do It For The Money - I've been blessed to know many of the greatest leaders. They're doing it for love of people, excitement, work, or impact. I've never met a great leader who was doing it for the money. Jensen Huang and Jeff Bezos are examples—clarity, vision, excellence in everything, no shortcuts.

Better To Be The Author Than The Editor - When you're ambitious, you end up surrounded by voices and can become the editor of your life. You have to become the author. Paint a self-portrait of yourself standing still so that when you start running, you know where you're going and why.

Reflection Questions

• What would the 5 people closest to you say about how you show up? Would their description match how you see yourself, or do you have a self-awareness gap you haven't addressed?
• If you mapped your actual daily behaviors against your stated top values, would they align? Or are you living someone else's version of success while calling it your own?
• Are you the author of your life or the editor? Whose voices are loudest in your head when making big decisions, and have you given yourself permission to write your own story?

Former Episodes Referenced

#127: Adam Grant - How Originals Impact the World

#441: Liz Wiseman - How to Build Credibility, Solve Problems, & Multiply Your Impact

#350 - Tom Rath - Answering Life’s Great Question

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver.

My guest: James Clear is the author of one of the most influential books of our generation, Atomic Habits. He’s sold over 25 million copies worldwide and has helped millions of people transform their lives through the power of small changes. We brought the podcast to the campus of Ohio University, where we recorded live in front of 250 of the most impressive college students I've ever met.

Notes:

I loved the Morgan Housel moment - It was cool to see James' reaction to it (you can watch it on YouTube.com/RyanHawk). Morgan said, “I have absolutely not a single cell of envy for him. Because he is the nicest guy you will ever meet. You will not meet a nicer human than James Clear. You will not meet someone as successful as he is and as humble as he is. He is a saint in my life. And because of that, I adore every bit of this guy, so I cannot envy him. I am just inspired by his success, full stop." We should all strive to be that for the people in our lives.

Your WHO - “Every opportunity in life comes through a person. Relationships are usually the most important thing. If you want to achieve more, there is a relationship that can unlock better results. If you want to make a meaningful contribution, helping others is a great way to do it. If you sim

Willpower – 'People with tremendous self-control aren't that different from those who struggle. They're simply better at structuring their lives in a way that doesn't require heroic willpower.' It's not about determination, it's about design. That's liberating.

Fall in Love with the Process - "When you fall in love with the process rather than the product, you don’t have to wait to give yourself permission to be happy. You can be satisfied anytime your system is running. And a system can be successful in many different forms, not just the one you first envision."

Make It Obvious, Easy, Attractive, Satisfying - The four laws of behavior change: make good habits obvious and bad habits invisible, make good habits easy and bad habits difficult, make good habits attractive and bad habits unattractive, make good habits satisfying and bad habits unsatisfying.

Use the Two-Minute Rule - Scale any habit down to something that takes two minutes or less. Want to read more? Read one page. Want to run a marathon? Put on your running shoes. The goal is to master showing up and make the entry point as easy as possible.

Standardize Before You Optimize - You can't improve a habit that doesn't exist. Master the art of showing up before worrying about optimization. Build consistency first, then work on increasing the dose or improving performance.

Track Your Habits Visually - I use a paper clip strategy: start each day with 120 paper clips in one jar, move one to another jar each time I complete a writing session. Visual tracking provides clear evidence of progress and makes the habit satisfying.

Habits Need to Match Your Personality - There's no one-size-fits-all approach. Morning people and night owls need different strategies. Work with your natural tendencies, not against them. Choose habits and contexts that align with who you already are.

Create Commitment Devices - Make bad habits difficult through commitment devices. I had my assistant change my social media passwords every Monday and only give them back on Fridays. This eliminated mindless scrolling during my productive work hours.

Focus on Systems, Not Goals - Winners and losers have the same goals. The difference is their systems. Goals are about the results you want to achieve; systems are about the processes that lead to those results. Fall in love with the process, not the outcome.

Build Habits That Align With Your Desired Identity - I wanted to be a writer, so I wrote every Monday and Thursday for years. Eventually, I had proof. I couldn't deny I was a writer because of the body of work I'd created. Your habits are how you embody your identity.

The Plateau of Latent Potential - We expect progress to be linear, but it's not. Habits often appear to make no difference until you cross a critical threshold. You need to persist long enough to get through the plateau and break through to the other side.

Reduce Friction for Good Habits - I want to work out more, so I lay out my workout clothes the night before. When I wake up, they're the first thing I see. The easier you make the habit, the more likely you are to do it.

Increase Friction for Bad Habits - Want to watch less TV? Unplug it after each use and put the remote in another room. The added friction makes the bad habit less appealing and gives you a moment to make a better choice.

Automate Good Decisions - Technology can lock in good behavior. I set up automatic transfers to my investment account. Once the system is in place, the good behavior happens without requiring willpower or decision-making energy.

Student Questions 

On Building Habits in College - The mess of college is actually useful because you're forced to figure out who you are. Use this time to experiment with different habits and see what sticks. You have more flexibility now than you will later in life.

On Breaking Bad Habits - Trying to eliminate a bad habit without replacing it with something else is really hard. The more sustainable approach is habit substitution. If you want to stop scrolling social media, replace it with reading for five minutes instead.

On Staying Consistent - Never miss twice. Missing once is an accident; missing twice is the start of a new habit. Elite performers aren't consistent because they're more disciplined—they have better strategies for getting back on track quickly when life happens.

On Finding Your Purpose - I think the idea of finding your purpose is misleading. You don't find your purpose; you build it through the habits you practice daily. Your life is essentially a collection of your habits, so if you want a different life, build different habits.

On Overcoming Setbacks - After my accident, I had to redefine what success looked like. Sometimes progress means recovering what you lost rather than reaching new heights. Focus on what you can control today rather than what you wish you could control.

On Reading and Learning - I read across many disciplines because insights often come from connecting ideas from different fields. Read widely, take notes, and revisit those notes regularly. The goal isn't to finish books—it's to find ideas that change how you think.

On Building a Writing Practice - I published twice per week for years before anything took off. Most people overestimate what they can accomplish in one year and underestimate what they can accomplish in ten years. Show up consistently and let time do the heavy lifting.

Reflection Questions

• Are you focused on achieving goals or building systems? What's one process you could improve this week that would make your desired outcomes more likely?
• What's one habit you want to build? Can you make it so easy that you can't say no—something that takes two minutes or less? How can you design your environment to make this habit obvious and attractive?
• Which of your current habits align with the identity you want to build? What small votes can you cast today through your actions to prove to yourself who you want to become?

Former Episodes Referenced

• #529 - James Clear - Becoming an Optimist, Creating Your System, & Setting Up Your Future Self
• #655 - Morgan Housel - The Simple Formula For Happiness, Betting on Others, & Gaining Independence & Purpose
• #594 - Charles Duhigg - Becoming a Super Communicator
• #470 - Daniel Coyle - Building Your Culture, Solving Hard Problems, & Winning The Learning Contest
• #428 - James Clear - Asking Better Questions, Taking Action, & Doing A+ Work

Episode Timestamps:

02:20 High Praise from Morgan Housel 

04:08 Winning the St. Gallen Symposium & James’ College Experience

07:00 The Strategy Behind Writing Atomic Habits 

13:58 Designing Your Environment for Success 

31:05 The Art of Building Genuine Relationships 

39:00 Clarifying Your Thoughts Through Writing 

40:11 Applying Atomic Habits to Leadership 

41:04 Mental Performance Techniques from a Navy SEAL 

43:31 Balancing Success and Personal Life 

47:56 The Importance of Reflection and Review 

51:10 Adapting Habits in Different Environments

55:19 Habits for Short-Term Goals vs Long-Term Goals 

01:04:27 Using Feedback for Habit Building 

01:07:55 Internal Dialogue While Building Habits

01:13:28 The Influence of Others on Forming Your Habits

01:17:01 EOPC

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver.

My Guest: Derek Sivers is the founder of CD Baby and author of "Hell Yeah or No" and "Useful Not True." He shared how he graduated from Cal Berkeley in two years instead of four because the "standard pace for chumps" - a lesson that shaped his entire career of institutional skepticism and unconventional thinking. From creating viral shipping emails to understanding why explorers make bad leaders, Derek shares why being busy means being out of control, how your first thought is an obstacle to your best work, and why you can't predict what the world will want from you until you try everything and listen closely to what it's telling you.

Notes:

No Speed Limit – Most things are paced so the slowest person can keep up. If you're driven and motivated, you can go so much faster than the standard pace. I graduated from Berkeley in two years by learning four semesters of harmony in one hour. "The standard pace is for chumps. You can do so much better than that."

Question the Standard Process – When someone says you must go through usual channels or something will take a certain time, assume there's probably a hack. Develop institutional skepticism - there's usually a better way than how most people do it.

Create Opportunities, Don't Wait for Them – You don't have to wait until a company is hiring. If you can see how to benefit them, walk in and show them what you can do for free first. Alan Tepper made Warner Brothers more money than anyone that year by just showing up with a plan.

Make Everything Valuable to Others – The starving artist spends all their time on work valuable to them but not to others. Use money as a neutral measure - if you can make money with your art, it ensures what you're doing is valuable to other people. "It's almost impossible to predict what the world will want from you... Keep yourself out there and listen closely to what the world is telling you it wants from you."

Stand Out by Being Different – Don't imitate what everyone else is doing. I wrote a silly shipping email in 10 minutes that became one of the most viral emails ever mentioned in business books. Ask yourself constantly: What has nobody done before?

The First Follower Creates the Movement – We focus on the shirtless dancing guy, but the first follower is what made everything happen. Until then, people kept their distance from the freak. If you find someone doing something great, follow them and show others how to follow.

Every Sentence Must Matter – My books are 90-100 pages, but start as 1,000-page rough drafts. I spend 1-2 years full-time chopping every sentence that doesn't absolutely need to be there. "I'm not gonna put a single sentence out into the world that doesn't need to be there." Make every word count - eliminate everything that doesn't add value.

Hell Yeah or No is Context-Dependent – This tool is for when you're overwhelmed with options and need to raise the bar. Straight out of college, say yes to everything because opportunities are like lottery tickets. Once something rewards you, then say no to other things and double down.

Busy Means Out of Control – "Busy to me implies out of control. You're busy if you've let other people shove shit into your schedule." Leave space instead of filling it - that time to think is what creates valuable insights others don't have time to develop.

Your First Thought is an Obstacle – Don't honor the thought that came first. In brainstorming, acknowledge the first idea, then keep going - don't stop at two or three. Even silly ideas can seed great ones you'd never reach without that stepping stone.

All Beliefs Are a Myth – People worshiped Zeus for centuries; now we call it mythology. But we say our own beliefs are true while others' are superstitions. I expected China to be awful from American news, but found it wonderful - question what you've been told.

Use Prejudice as Your Compass – If you notice you're prejudiced against something, that's exactly what you should explore. Burning Man sounds awful to me; therefore, I should probably go. Steer into your biases to overcome them and gain new perspectives.

Explorers Make Terrible Leaders – Explorers try everything and change direction constantly, which frustrates teams. Leaders go in a straight line to a clear destination, unwavering in mission even if the path changes. I loved changing my mind, which made me a bad leader until I learned the difference. Set projects with clear missions, even if you're personally exploring other things.

Try Everything Until the World Says Yes – I had a booking agency, a record label, a recording studio, and my own music - all failures. Then, a side project to help friends (CD Baby) took off. You can't predict what the world wants from you, so try many things and listen closely to what it's telling you.

Reflection 

1. What "standard pace" are you accepting in your business or career that you could actually accelerate if you questioned it? Where have you assumed something has to take a certain amount of time just because that's how it's always been done?
2. Are you spending time on work that's valuable to you but not to others? How could you test whether what you're creating actually solves problems people are willing to pay for?
3. Are you acting more like an explorer or a leader right now? If you're constantly changing direction, how could you set clearer missions for your projects while keeping your personal explorations separate?

Resources & References

Derek's Content:

• Derek's website and blog 
• "Leadership Lessons from Dancing Guy" (First Follower) TED Talk - Derek Sivers 
• "No Speed Limit" essay 

Former Episodes Referenced

• #647 - Tim Ferriss - Chasing Your Curiosity
• #562 - Nikki Glaser -  The Creative Process of a Comedian 
• #644 - Blaine Anderson - Confidence, Curiosity, Connection 

Episode Timestamps

02:20 Early Life Lessons from Kimo Williams

05:21 Corporate Lessons and Unconventional Paths

09:10 The Power of Adding Value

13:57 Viral TED Talk: Leadership Lessons from the Dancing Guy

22:03 The 'Hell Yeah or No' Philosophy

27:29 The CD Baby Experience

28:02 Starting an Online Record Store

29:10 Creating a Unique Shipping Notice

30:01 The Viral Impact of Creativity

32:53 The Importance of Regular Writing

35:17 Questioning Assumptions and Beliefs

36:23 Exploring New Perspectives

40:41 The Explorer vs. The Leader

48:21 Advice for Aspiring Leaders

Resources:

• Read: The Score That Matters
• Read: The Pursuit of Excellence
• Read: Welcome to Management
• To Follow me on X: @RyanHawk12

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

My guest: Dave Berke is a retired US Marine Corps Officer, TOPGUN Instructor, and now a leadership instructor and speaker with Echelon Front, where he serves as Chief Development Officer. As a F/A-18 pilot, he deployed twice from the USS John C Stennis in support of combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. He spent three years as an Instructor Pilot at TOPGUN where he served as the Training Officer, the senior staff pilot responsible for the conduct of the TOPGUN course.

Notes:

• July 2001: Plans Don't Survive Contact - Dave's Top Gun graduation exercise as flight lead. Wingman yells, "Showtime one-one break right!" - an F-5 snuck into formation. Dave was staring at the radar instead of looking out, had to fall out of formation, and ended up at the back instead of leading from the front. Mission successful, but nothing like he planned. Dave: "The outcome was still really good... except it was nothing like I thought it was going to be." Lesson: You're planning for the success of the outcome, not how you're going to do it.
• The most important attribute in a leader is humility. To be effective, you must be able to listen, learn, be flexible, and admit you’re wrong sometimes. One of the biggest issues they deal with when working with leaders is ego and/or the inability to be humble. As leaders, we need to be self-aware enough to realize when our ego is getting the best of us. And surrounding ourselves with people who will help us know when that is happening as well.
• Be Fluid with Plans, Deliberate with Outcomes - Be really fluid and loose with plans, but deliberate about aligning the team on outcomes. Dave grew up as a control freak, OCD planner. Dave: "In life, it's just not how life works... If you can align on the mission and outcome, and you are very open-minded that there are a lot of different ways to get there, you're far more likely to be successful." The military saying, "The enemy gets a vote." Ryan's quarterback coach after an interception: "He's on scholarship too, you know?"
• Process: How You Create It Matters Most - Process is important, but how you create it matters most. If you agree on the outcome, the conversation should be less about agreement, more about "When you talk about step one, what are you thinking? How does this lead to step two?" The process has to be organic. When you create it, you're more likely to maneuver around challenges.
• Book Dedication: Chris and Kat - Book dedicated to Corporal Chris Leon and his mother, Kat. Chris was a radio operator on Dave's 13-man Anglo team. June 20, 2006, Chris was killed by an enemy sniper in Iraq - first Anglican Marine killed there. Dave's son is Matthew Leon Burke - took Chris's last name. Chris's mom Kat is Aunt Kat to Dave's family. Dave: "I always say I really deep down wish I didn't know Kat, because that would've meant Chris came home and life just went on. But that's not what happened." Chris taught bravery. Kat taught strength.
• Top Gun Reality: It's About the Team - 1986 Top Gun most impactful movie on Dave's life at 14. But the movie depicts a lone wolf. Marine Corps teaches: Your contribution to the team matters most. A really good pilot who's self-centered will do more damage than a slightly less capable pilot who's a real team player. Dave: "If there's ever a team sport, it's going into combat... It's not about you. It's about the team."
• Trust: Action, Not Description - Echelon codifies relationships: Trust, respect, listening, influence. Trust is the cornerstone. Dave: "If you don't trust me, I could be good at so many things. If there is a trust gap, there's going to be a problem in the relationship and team." Trust is action you take. 
• Ego: The Universal Challenge - When Echelon works with companies, challenges are almost always connected to ego. Dave: "Our egos tend to wreak havoc at each level of organization." From birth, the ego drives us down the wrong path. When debating plans, ego says, "You're right, he's wrong." Building good leadership is managing egos. Dave: "Humility is the most important attribute in a leader. All the attributes, humility is number one, and we don't waffle on that."
• Humility Enables Everything Else - Dave worked with the biggest, toughest SEALs. Attribute most critical to success: humility. Ability to listen, learn, be flexible, change, admit you're wrong, and go with someone else's plan. It even affects fitness. Humility touches everything. Doesn't diminish other attributes, but allows you to strengthen them. 
• Teaching Humility: Subordinate Your Ego - You can’t tell someone with a big ego to be humble. Dave: "The biggest challenge with someone else's ego is not their ego. It's your ego's response to it." Most counterintuitive thing: If you clash with Ryan, Dave has to subordinate his ego to Ryan's. Lower your ego: "Hey Ryan, I've been pushing back hard, I realize I'm not listening." Natural reaction: Ryan's ego starts to drop. Over time, collaborate more. You connect success to the ability to control the ego. Dave: "Humility is the measurement of how much control you have over your ego." What you give is usually what you get. It's reciprocal.
• Care About Team More Than Yourself - When your people see you working hard to clear paths or block an egomaniac boss, they'll run through walls for you. Outcome of a good relationship: You care about the team, the team cares about you. That selfless act shows you care about them more than yourself. Dave: "That's how you show that you care about them more than yourself, and that's what a leader's job is, to care about the team more than you care about yourself. That's parenting, that's marriage."
• Extreme Ownership - Book Extreme Ownership changed Dave's understanding. When you take ownership, take ownership of everything. Caveat: Not things you literally don't control. But you have ownership over everything, even just how you react. After Chris was killed, Dave said, "That's war, nothing we can do." Problem: When he embraced it wasn't his responsibility, it meant he didn't have as much to change. Should have asked: "What is everything we can do to make sure this doesn't happen again?" The tendency is to undershoot ownership. Try to take it to the extreme. If you can take ownership of everything you can control, you get more influence over the outcome.
• Detachment: A Superpower - Dave: "Detachment is a superpower" - (1) almost nobody can do it, and (2) if you can, it’s massively influential. Detachment is being in control of emotions. When overwhelmed with priorities and pressures, you tend to get emotional. When you react emotionally, you make bad decisions. Learn the skill of detaching - not to be devoid of emotion (we're human), but don't let emotions dictate.
• Get Away from Problems to See What's Causing It - When a problem occurs at work, you tend to focus on it, go into it. It seems good but is often wrong. You should get away from it, detach. Getting away lets you look around and see what's really causing it. Military example: The enemy is shooting at you; the tendency is to focus on that. Usually bad because they're hoping you do - then they send a flanking maneuver. If you detach, step back, you'll see the flanking maneuver coming. Be able to see the future - that's the superpower. 
• Know Your Red Flags - Intervene Early - You have to understand where you are escalating your emotions. Know your personal red flags. Most people don't go zero to 100. Long day, flight delayed, bad meeting - little things tick up, so zero is actually 4 or 5, which means dirty dishes put you to 7. When Dave gets frustrated, traps tighten up. Some people's nose turns red. If you're at level 8 and someone says, "calm down," it makes it worse. But if at level 1 or 2 and you intervene, you're in control. What an adult does: "I'm an emotional guy, but I have awareness of where I am. If I'm a 4, I gotta intervene then." If at level 10, detaching is not gonna happen. That's the difference between kids and adults. Dave: "You are much more likely to have a hard time controlling your emotions, ironically, with people you care about the most."
• Quotes:
  • "You're planning for the success of the outcome, not how you're going to go about doing that, because things get in the way." 
  • "Humility is the most important attribute in a leader. All the attributes. Humility is number one, and we don't waffle on that." 
  • "The biggest challenge with someone else's ego is not their ego. It's your ego's response to it." 
  • "Detachment is a superpower." 
  • "You are much more likely to have a hard time controlling your emotions, ironically, with people you care about the most."

01:16 Introducing Dave Burke

02:21 Dave Burke's Top Gun Experience

05:23 Lessons Learned from Military to Everyday Life

07:56 The Importance of Flexibility in Leadership

13:07 The Need to Lead: Dedication and Personal Stories

16:58 The Realities of Teamwork in Combat and Business

21:03 Building Trust and Relationships in Teams

26:04 The Role of Humility in Effective Leadership

31:03 Understanding Ego and Humility

31:50 Subordinating Your Ego

33:38 Challenges of Teaching Humility

34:07 Personal Experiences with Ego

39:20 The Power of Ownership

42:57 Detachment as a Superpower

52:58 Advice for Young Leaders

57:26 Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver.

My Guest: Helen Lewis is a staff writer at The Atlantic and author of The Genius Myth: Great Ideas Don't Come from Lone Geniuses. 

Notes:

• Shakespeare: Talent + Luck + Timing - William Shakespeare died in 1616 at age 52, celebrated but not yet immortal. His icon status required massive luck: friends published the First Folio (saving King Lear), then 50 years later, Charles II reopened England's theaters after Puritan closures and needed content. Companies turned to Shakespeare's IP, adapting his work (including changing tragedies to happy endings). Helen: "If anyone deserves to be called a genius, it's him. But he died as a successful man of his age.
• Scenius Over Genius - Brian Eno coined "scenius" - places that are unusually productive and creative. Shakespeare moved from Warwickshire to London for the theaters and playwrights. Helen: "You don't just have to be Leonardo, you also need Florence... Where do you find the coolest, most interesting bleeding edge of your field?" Modern example: Joe Rogan's Comedy Mothership in Austin created an alternative to LA/NYC for comedians like Shane Gillis and Tony Hinchcliffe. Ryan: "Put yourself in rooms where you feel like the dumbest person... force you to rise up, think differently, work harder."
• Tim Berners-Lee vs. Elon Musk - Tim Berners-Lee invented the World Wide Web. Has knighthood, lives an ordinary life, kids named Alice and Ben. Most people have never heard of him. Elon Musk has a lot of children, talks about his genes needing to live on, and lives a very public life. Helen: "We overrate the self-promoters, the narcissists. We demand oddness and specialness... We don't call modest people geniuses because they're too normal." Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos) and Sam Bankman-Fried (FTX) exploited this - looked like a genius (Steve Jobs cosplay, messy math prodigy) but stood on houses of cards.
• Trauma and the "I'll Show You" Engine - Matthew Parris wrote Fracture after noticing how many "great lives" had traumatic childhoods - loss of parents, being unloved, bullied. Helen: "I don't think that's necessarily genius in objective achievement. It's more like a hunger for recognition or fame... a kind of 'I'll show all of you' engine."
• Stephen Hawking on IQ - Stephen Hawking: "I have no idea. People who boast about their IQ are losers." The Flynn Effect shows average IQ rose over the 20th century through better nutrition, schooling, and living conditions. Higher IQ correlates with better outcomes. But at the top end, every IQ point ≠ is one success point. Christopher Langan (the highest IQ guy) thinks he has a theory to overturn Einstein, and that Bush did 9/11 to cover it up. No history of achievement. Helen: "Smart people don't always prosper. You need the gears that connect the engine to the wheels on the road."
• Conspiracy Theories: Narcissism as Driver - Narcissism is the most correlated personality trait with conspiracy thinking. Helen: "The sheeple, the NPCs think this, but I alone have seen the truth. It positions you as the protagonist of reality." The Internet is a "confirmation bias engine." But conspiracies are sometimes true (Epstein's corrupt plea deal), which is why conspiracy thinking persists. Researcher Karen Stenner's solution: Get back to depoliticized conspiracies like Bigfoot, crop circles, Area 51 - harmless things that got people outside instead of "shoot up a pizza restaurant."
• The Beatles: Finiteness Creates Legend - Psychologist Han Isaac said geniuses should either die before 30 or live past 80. Middle is "eh." The Beatles had both: a short career that ended definitively, then John Lennon was shot at 40, frozen in time. Paul McCartney lives on, performs at Glastonbury with John's vocals. Craig Brown: "The Rolling Stones just go on and on, but there's never as much of the Beatles as you want."
• Quality Over Quantity - Helen: "Incentive now is producing constantly for algorithms... That's neither fun nor produces the best work." Early career: say YES. Later career: "The most important thing you can say is no." Her metric: "Can I say honestly, that was the best I could do? I didn't cut corners. That's the metric." Podcast: advised to do 2-3 episodes weekly for rankings, has been doing weekly for 10.5 years. Shows that went daily? He stopped listening. "I'm gonna increase the quality bar, not the quantity." Robert Greene: "Do not speak unless you can improve upon the silence."
• Improving the Silence - "My dad's not the loudest at family gatherings, doesn't have the most words, but when he speaks, we all stop and listen. That's who you want to be." Applies to meetings: people vomit garbage to show how smart they are instead of waiting for something valuable. When you speak, people should want to listen.
• Thomas Edison: Execution Over Ideas - The Light bulb wasn't Edison's conceptual innovation - the idea dated to Humphrey Davy. What was incredible: Edison made it work (vacuum seal, filament) and created the New York power grid. Helen: "Lots of people can have the idea that a man should be an ant. Not everybody can write the Ant-Man screenplay and have it produced." His Menlo Park lab lasted because he worked with brilliant people on problems they cared about. Logbook shows assistants' names on breakthroughs - collaborative. We underrate logistics and execution. Most "light bulb moments" are actually slow, incremental, contested creations.
• Why Helen Chooses Teams Over Independence - Could go independent on Substack for more money. Works at The Atlantic for: resources, legal support, editorial integrity, and colleagues she doesn't want to let down. Helen: "You must have people in your life, you think, I wanna do work that they like. Finding those people who make you your best version of yourself." Ryan connects to athletics: "Being surrounded by people better than me forces me to raise my game. That's why we want to be part of a great team."
• Sample First, Specialize Later - High achievers have "hot streak" later, but sample early - trying different things, learning transferable skills. Helen: "Take the first job at a publication you could learn from. Even if not wildly interested, if it's good and they'll hold you to high standards, do it. Your second job is infinitely easier to get than your first."
• Work Around People Who Care - Helen: "If you work somewhere where no one cares, it's very hard. You can't care on your own. You'll become infected by the apathy around you." Nothing is more boring than a job you don't care about.
• Don't Wait to Live - Some devote long hours to something for money, promising they'll retire at 30 and then live. Helen: "What if you spent all that time chasing something and then you get hit by a truck? Don't wait for it. Just try and enjoy what you're doing right now."
• Quotes:
  • "You don't just have to be Leonardo, you also need Florence." 
  • "We overrate the self-promoters and underrate the humble achievers." 
  • "Smart people don't always prosper. You need the gears that connect the engine to the wheels." 
  • "The most important thing you can say is no." 
  • "Do not speak unless you can improve upon the silence." - Robert Greene
  • "You can't care on your own. You'll become infected by the apathy around you." 
• It’s funny that we have come to use the phrase ‘lightbulb moment’ to describe a momentary flash of inspiration, because the birth of the lightbulb was slow, incremental, and highly contested.

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

Guest: Dakota Meyer, a United States Marine Corps veteran and Medal of Honor recipient. At just 21 years old, Dakota's actions during the Battle of Ganjgal in Afghanistan saved many lives when he repeatedly went against his orders and drove into a Taliban ambush zone to rescue trapped soldiers. He became the first living Marine in more than 40 years to receive the Medal of Honor. Today, he's a firefighter, entrepreneur, and New York Times bestselling author. Dakota is dedicated to developing leaders who can handle crisis and complexity. In our conversation, you'll hear why Dakota believes his most heroic day was actually his greatest failure, what he was feeling the day he received the Medal of Honor from President Obama, and his practical blueprint for bringing our divided country together.

Notes:

• The Three-Phase Life Cycle - Dakota's framework for wisdom: "You have an obstacle you face. You have to get through that obstacle and become better from it. And then the third piece is you have to share how you got through that obstacle."
• Leadership vs. Responsibility - "Leaders are just people too. You can lead from anywhere in an organization... Leadership comes in many forms." True leadership means choosing where your loyalty lies - with the people you're responsible for or with protecting your own position.
• September 8th, 2009: Leadership Failure - Dakota frames his Medal of Honor actions as "an absolute story of leadership failure at its best" - multiple levels of leaders avoiding responsibility while he went against orders to save his teammates.
• The Loyalty Question - "Where does their loyalty lie? Is it in the people that trust them to lead them and to protect them? Or is it in the organization in order for themselves to keep getting promoted?" This fundamental choice defines every leader.
• Risk vs. Results - "Organizations and leaders today are so risk-averse that risk comes before results... You can't be successful, do hard things, and stay comfortable and be safe. In no world does that exist."
• Mental Health Reality Check - Dakota challenges current mental health approaches: "We're giving people no hope because we're trying to accommodate their emotions and not bring them back to reality and logic." He distinguishes between trauma that needs addressing and self-induced mental health issues through poor choices.
• Love as Choice, Not Emotion - "Love is not an emotion. Love is a choice... If you love me, you're going to always help me be the best version of me. That doesn't always feel good."
• Accountability and Fatherhood - As a father of two daughters: "I can't be anything that I wouldn't let anybody else be to them... You set the bar for what they're gonna accept and what they're not gonna accept."
• The Civil War Warning - "America doesn't need a Civil War. What we need is to vote, to lead, to speak up in schools, to teach our kids history, truth, kindness with strength, and how to disagree without violence."
• The Ambush  - When his team walked into an ambush, promised support assets (air support, mortars, quick reaction force) weren't available due to rules of engagement restrictions. When Lieutenant Johnson called for artillery support, saying, "If you don't give me these rounds right now, we're going to die," the response was "Try your best."
• The Decision to Act - Dakota requested permission to help multiple times and was denied each time. He finally went against orders with his driver, Staff Sergeant Rodriguez Chavez, making four or five trips into the valley over six hours to evacuate wounded and recover bodies.
• The Human Cost - Dakota describes the helplessness of watching Afghan soldiers get "mowed down" while running toward his vehicle for rescue. He performed basic life-saving measures, loaded wounded in trucks with the dead on the bottom and living on top for triage priority, and ultimately recovered some of his fallen teammates.
• The Immediate Aftermath - Dakota put his teammates in body bags, flew them home, then immediately returned to cleaning his truck and helping Afghan soldiers with their dead. He went back to his base alone - the only survivor of his four-man team.
• Mental Health Crisis - Dakota developed a destructive cycle: daily drinking (depressant), massive caffeine intake to compensate, creating anxiety and amplifying trauma. He was surrounded by people who only wanted to discuss trauma and war stories, preventing healing.
• Suicide Attempt - Dakota reached a breaking point where he held a gun to his head, but it wasn't loaded. This became his turning point - he made a commitment to either "rack it back and go ahead and do it, or go out and find a way to get through this and start living a life worthy of their sacrifices."
• The Path Forward - Recovery came through accountability rather than accommodation. Dakota emphasizes that while trauma needed addressing, he was "amplifying and feeding the problem, not the solution" through his choices.
• Real vs. Perceived Heroism - Dakota challenges the hero narrative: "I am an example of the potential that's in every human being... If they believe in a cause that's bigger than themselves, and they love people so much that they're willing to do whatever it takes to stop the suffering."
• Daily Character Building - "You don't just wake up and do the hard thing. It starts every day. Do you get up when you say you're gonna get up? Do you do what you say?" The Medal of Honor action was simply "upholding my end of the deal to my teammates and to my country."
• Being a Great Dad - Dakota sets an extremely high bar as a dad: "I believe that if your daughters start dating shitty and weak men, it's because you are a shitty and weak man." He sees fatherhood as the ultimate accountability.
• Unity through Truth - His current focus: "I just want to bring people together... I wanna put hope back in the world through truth." He believes in finding common ground with anyone through genuine connection and curiosity.
• Education vs. Knowledge - Dakota distinguishes between theoretical education and practical knowledge: "There's a difference between education and knowledge... those who can't do, they teach. We need more that have done teaching."
• The Power of Love - His core philosophy centers on love as action, not emotion: "Love is limitless... there's no expiration date" compared to hate and negativity, which "there's an expiration date on."
• Practical Application
  • Leadership Loyalty Test - Before making decisions, ask where your primary loyalty lies: with those you lead or with your own advancement
  • Risk-Taking Framework - Understand that meaningful results require accepting risk and discomfort
  • Mental Health Approach - Address trauma while taking responsibility for choices that amplify problems
  • Daily Character Development - Build integrity through small daily commitments before facing major challenges
  • Connection Over Division - Seek common ground through curiosity and questions rather than attacking opposing viewpoints

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

Morgan Housel is the New York Times Bestselling author of The Psychology of Money, Same As Ever, and The Art of Spending Money. His books have sold over 10million copies and have been translated into more than 60 languages.

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver.

Notes:

• Morgan dedicated The Art of Spending Money to "Kellie the Unicorn" (his sister Kellie) after she was diagnosed with colon cancer and asked him to fulfill her long-running joke request. Sometimes book dedications "mean nothing to the reader, but they can mean everything to the author."
• People Who Bet on You - Brian Richards (Motley Fool boss) bet on Morgan when he didn't have to, providing unconditional support for a mediocre college writer. Craig Shapiro (Collaborative Fund) pursued Morgan for months to join his tiny VC firm as a full-time blogger when it wasn't a business necessity.
• What money can’t buy - Morgan once heard a story from a priest that he'll never forget… It’s from a priest who delivers the last rites in hospitals. He described the difference between what kids say to their parents when they’re about to die. The priest tells them to tell their parents what they’re most grateful for… In families with lots of problems, the kids usually talk about something that costs money. In the best families, the ones with solid relationships, the kids say the same thing every time. “Thank you for believing in me.”
• Making vs. Spending Money - "There are literally tens of thousands of books written on how to make money... There are virtually no books written about how to spend money." Most people assume spending needs no guidance, but wealthy people often demonstrate this isn't true.
• The Internal vs. External Scoreboard - Donald Crowhurst (fake sailor who killed himself seeking external validation) vs. Bernard Moitessier (expert sailor who quit before winning to avoid attention and live authentically). Modern society pushes us toward Crowhurst's external validation while we actually want Moitessier's internal satisfaction.
• The simplest formula for a pretty nice life: independence plus purpose. The independence to do what you want, and the wisdom to want to do meaningful things.
• Chuck Feeney's Wealth Example - The duty-free store billionaire first lived the stereotypical rich lifestyle, realized he didn't like it, then chose to live modestly and give away $10 billion. "I was happy when I was giving money away, and I was not happy when I wasn't giving money away."
• Every Dollar of Debt - "Every dollar of debt that you have is a piece of your future that someone else owns." Debt narrows the range of outcomes you can endure in an unknowable future.
• Money and Happiness Research - Recent studies show that earning more money only helps if you're already happy, joyful, and content. For depressed, anxious people, more money doesn't improve well-being. "It leverages whoever you are in either direction."
• What Money Can't Buy - The book is "40% about how to spend money to make yourself happier and 60% about realizing what money cannot do for you." Relationships, health, and personal fulfillment must come first.
• “Comedians are the best thought leaders because they understand how the world works, but they want to make you laugh rather than making themselves feel smart.”
• "Nobody gives a shit about anything other than how you make them feel."
• Vacation - Morgan realized while building sandcastles with his kids on the beach in Maui (10/10 experience) that building Legos at home with them was almost as good (9/10). The real value was "uninterrupted time with my family," which required travel to avoid daily distractions but pointed to what actually mattered.
• Ambition - Morgan's career drive crystallized while kayaking past $25 million mansions on Lake Washington in 2010: "I need to work harder. I want one of those one day." This wasn't envy but ambition - though he notes the line between inspiration and envy is thin, especially once you know the person.
• A high savings rate is not "saving" but is "purchasing independence." Each saved dollar buys freedom to handle life's unknowable future without someone else's schedule dictating his choices.
• Why Spending Is Complicated
  • People try to fill emotional holes with material purchases
  • Society tells us what we should like, which may not align with our actual preferences
  • We chase peer comparison rather than personal satisfaction
  • We overestimate the social rewards of nice possessions
• The Independence Framework
  • Save money not for retirement but for freedom to handle uncertainty
  • Debt narrows your options when life throws curveballs
  • Independence means being able to do what you want, with whom you want, for as long as you want
• The Internal Scorecard
  • "No one's watching. No one's thinking about you."
  • When people notice your possessions, they're either imagining themselves having them or envying you for them
  • Neither response gives you the social validation you're seeking
  • Use money to buy independence rather than others' admiration
• Relationship Investments
  • Focus on what creates "uninterrupted time with people you love"
  • Consider how purchases enable deeper connections (bigger kitchen for family dinners) vs. impressing others
  • Remember that belief and support matter more than material provision
• Purpose
  • Morgan's purpose became clear the moment he became a father: "There. That's it... I don't matter anymore. That's the only thing that matters right there." Purpose can be parenthood, work, religion, or community, but it needs to be bigger than yourself.
• "Comedians are the best thought leaders because they understand how the world works, but they want to make you laugh rather than making themselves feel smart." They deliver profound psychological and social insights while focusing on how they make you feel, not their own status.
• Regret -- Gerontologist Carl Pillemer interviewed 1,000 Americans aged 90-100. Not a single one said, "I wish I earned more money" or "I wish I worked harder." Nearly all said "I wish I spent more time with my kids" and "I wish I were nicer to my spouse."
• Inspiration vs. Envy -- Morgan credits James Clear as inspiration for "The Psychology of Money" and describes him as incredibly successful yet humble and kind. This creates pure inspiration without envy, unlike other successful writers whose personalities trigger competitive feelings.

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

Guest: Jake Tapper is an award-winning broadcaster and chief Washington correspondent, currently anchoring The Lead with Jake Tapper every day on CNN. He’s also the #1 New York Times best-selling author of 7 books, including The Outpost (which was later made into a movie), Original Sin, and most recently Race Against Terror.

Notes:

• Be So Good They Can’t Ignore You. Jake: I’m in control of how hard I work. It is our responsibility to work so hard that we become the obvious choice for the job or the promotion. Be So Good They Can’t Ignore You. "I had to be so good that even though maybe on a broadcasting level I wouldn't be the number one pick... they had to give it to me."
• The one leadership skill that is massively important to develop… Don’t insulate yourself with “yes” people. You have to have truth tellers in your life. Who are your foxhole friends? Who are the people who are willing and able to tell you the truth? Who are the ones who love you and care about you enough to let you know when you’ve messed up? Those people are gold. We all need them.
• Rejection: Dr. Seuss was rejected by 47 publishers. Rejection is part of life. You have to stay in the game for a chance to win it. Keep going. And nobody will give you a job to be nice. What value do you bring to a company? How will you make your boss's life better? You get hired to solve a problem, not because someone wants to be nice.
• Pinned tweet since 2017 – "To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle." -- George Orwell. A reminder to see obvious truths being obscured by spin or wishful thinking.
• "You Can Always Tell Them No" - Ted Koppel's crucial advice to young Jake about maintaining journalistic integrity and not compromising values for opportunities. This became a career-defining principle that Jake still follows 20 years later.
• The Jar Jar Binks Theory of Leadership - Successful leaders often remove critics from their inner circle, creating dangerous echo chambers. "Great people often achieve as much as they can to the point that they are able to remove from their inner circle anyone who tells them they're being an asshole or making a wrong decision."
• Constructive vs. Destructive Criticism - Jake learned to distinguish between useful feedback and personal attacks: "Very few of my critics are people that I actually care what they think... folks who understand I'm just trying to be a good faith operative here."
• Curiosity as Career Driver - Deep curiosity drove Jake from reading microfiche about MASH as a kid to investigating complex stories as an adult: "I find something interesting and I wanna find out everything I can about it."
• Rejection as Constant Reality - Even at his career peak, Jake faces daily rejection: "I get rejected every day... it doesn't matter that I've had New York Times bestsellers before... it's part of life."
• Humility Enables Learning - Accepting expertise gaps allows growth: "Having the humility to accept that I am not an expert on any particular thing... I'm a journalist, which means I try to be an expert on whatever I'm covering at that moment."
• Leadership Lessons From Powerful People
  • The Inner Circle Problem: Leaders systematically remove critics until surrounded only by yes-people, creating dangerous blind spots. Jake witnessed this pattern with Joe Biden (surrounded by aides and family who weren't honest about his declining acuity) and across industries.
  • The Solution: Intentionally maintain truth-tellers in your inner circle who care about you personally but will challenge you professionally.
  • Creating Truth-Telling Environments: Jake encourages healthy disagreement with executive producers, acknowledges power imbalances that make criticism harder for junior staff, and creates indirect channels for feedback ("some people on the staff think...").
  • The Criticism Paradox: Public leaders face constant harsh criticism, making them naturally defensive. Understanding this context helps leaders distinguish between constructive feedback that improves performance versus personal attacks that serve no purpose.
• Following Curiosity Despite Opposition
  • Jake's major works were all advised against by professionals:
    • The Outpost (no military expertise)
    • The Atlantic story of freeing a wrongly imprisoned man
    • Biden book (started the day after the election, despite uncertainty)
  • Key Insight: "Every single one of them, people were telling me not to do it... It's been following my curiosities even when people told me I'm not interested in that."
• The Hard Work Advantage: Jake couldn't compete on appearance or natural broadcasting ability, so he outworked everyone: broke stories constantly, used blogs when he couldn't get on air, and made himself impossible to ignore through sheer output.
• Dealing with Rejection
  • Expect constant rejection even at a career peak
  • Don't take rejection personally unless there's constructive feedback
  • Use rejection as data, not judgment of worth
  • Keep creating regardless of immediate acceptance
• The Wave Metaphor: Like Tom Hanks in Cast Away, timing the waves - "every code can be cracked" if you persist and find the right timing.
• Key Elements for Writers:
  • Strong structure: "Act one, chase your hero up a tree. Act two: throw rocks at your hero. Act three, get your hero out of the tree."
  • Good editor who pushes back - be willing to "kill your darlings"
• Life Philosophy
  • The Acceleration Mindset: At 56, Jake is speeding up output: "I don't know how much longer I have this window where people are paying attention... relevance is ephemeral... when it leaves, it looks fucking brutal."
  • For Young People: "So much of life is rejection... You cannot stop it... don't take it personally." Focus on developing skills and delivering value: "Nobody will give you a job to be nice... They'll do it because you have something they want."
  • Time Sacrifice Awareness: Success requires acknowledging costs: "What I cried about is the stuff I missed that I wasn't there for because I was chasing a story or on assignment."

Time Stamps:

02:46 Jake’s Dedication to Influential Figures

05:05 Hot Mic Moment in Alaska

06:59 Preparing for Big Interviews & When to Follow Up

09:01 Dealing with Criticism

12:07 The Story Behind Jake’s Pinned Tweet

13:48 Race Against Terror: The New Book

18:29 Balancing Multiple Roles

20:47 Chasing Your Own Curiosity 

23:58 Sacrifices for Career Success

29:00 The Importance of Humility in Leadership

31:08 Surrounding Yourself with Truth Tellers

34:18 Healthy Tension in Team Dynamics

37:15 Understanding the Pressure on Public Figures

40:09 Empathy in Leadership

45:17 Balancing Career and Family

49:00 Advice for Aspiring Journalists and Writers

52:01 The Reality of Rejection and Hard Work

57:26 The Importance of Structure and Editing in Writing

01:01:16 End of the Podcast Club

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver.

Sukhinder Singh Cassidy is the CEO of Xero. Xero is a cloud-based accounting software designed for small businesses. They did $2.1 billion in revenue last year. Over the past 25 years, Sukhinder has had leadership roles at Google, Amazon, and StubHub.

Notes:

Key Learnings

• Strategic CEO Job Search Criteria – Sukhinder had four non-negotiables: macro tailwinds/good market, customer she could be passionate about, strong business model, and a role where she could "learn for miles" for 5-8 years. Only two companies met her criteria in 18 months of searching.
• "Sell, Interview, Sell" Hiring Process – First meeting is 50% selling the opportunity to attract top talent. Only after candidates lean in do you shift to intensive interviewing with leadership team exposure.
• The Virtuous Cycle Framework – Customer at the top, supported by "high purpose, high performance, high people" culture. "It's an 'and,' not an 'or'" - you don't get to choose just one element.
• Back-Channeling is Critical – Reference checking happens throughout the entire interview process, not just at the end. "The most important thing is not just front channel... it's all the back channel."
• Values Alignment Over Pure Qualifications – "Go where my values fit and my strengths are valued." Cultural fit becomes the deciding factor in close hiring calls, not competence.
• The Layoff Leadership Test – Six weeks after joining, Sukhinder laid off 900 people based on McKinsey benchmarking. Showed consistency between the outside-in analysis presented to the board and transparent communication to employees.
• Portfolio of Bets Strategy – Balance growth, profitability, and customer happiness through diversified initiatives ranging from "safe moves" to "flyers," with clear probability assessments.
• Consistency as Culture Foundation – "Culture means consistency of message and what's important." Authenticity through change, not resistance to change.
• The 10-Slide CEO Interview Deck Framework:
  1. Vision statement (destination in 2-3 years)
  2. Outside-in market analysis
  3. Competitive landscape
  4. SWOT analysis of current position
  5. Five key strategic moves
  6. Implementation approach ("the how")
  7. Estimated outcomes with probability ranges
• Practical Application:
  • Job Search Strategy – Define 4-5 non-negotiable criteria upfront. Be willing to wait for roles that truly meet your standards rather than taking "the job before the job."
  • Interview Preparation – Always build a comprehensive thesis deck even if not requested. Use it to clarify your own thinking and demonstrate strategic capability.
  • Hiring Excellence – Spend equal time selling the opportunity and evaluating candidates. Use diverse interview panels and back-channel extensively throughout the process.
  • Cultural Leadership – Be consistent in messaging across all stakeholders (board, investors, employees). Authenticity enables trust during periods of change.
  • Strategic Planning – Frame initiatives as a portfolio of bets with clear probability assessments. Balance growth, profitability, and customer satisfaction rather than optimizing for one.
• Leadership Hiring Process:
  • The CEO interviews top 2-3 levels even without hiring authority
  • Diverse interviewer panels with "bar raisers"
  • Business problem-solving presentations in the final rounds
  • Multiple leadership team interactions before the final decision
• Life Lessons:
  • Patience in Career Progression – Sometimes the right opportunity requires waiting. Sukhinder was frustrated during 18 months of searching but found the perfect fit.
  • Preparation Separates Candidates – The depth of strategic thinking demonstrated in final presentations often determines CEO selections.
  • Culture Survives Through Consistency – Not avoiding change, but maintaining consistent values and communication approach through inevitable changes.
  • Leadership Requires Tough Decisions – Laying off 900 people six weeks into the role, but doing it transparently and based on clear data/analysis.
  • Value Creation Through Alignment – Finding roles where your strengths are valued and values align creates exponentially better outcomes than pure skill matching.
  • Systems Thinking Builds Trust – Sharing appropriate "behind the scenes" context helps teams understand difficult decisions and builds long-term credibility.
  • Early Career Focus – "Do great work for great people." Find talented leaders to apprentice under and work exceptionally hard to maximize learning.
  • Authenticity Enables Performance – Being genuine about challenges and changes builds stronger relationships than trying to maintain artificial stability.
  • Strategic Communication – Frame personal asks in terms of organizational benefits. Make it about solving their problems, not your desires.
• The Xero Transformation:
  • Financial Performance: $2.1B revenue, 21% YoY growth while maintaining profitability
  • Cultural Approach: "High purpose, high performance, high people" - no choosing between them
  • Strategic Moves: Pricing/packaging optimization, sales motion transformation, customer experience reimagining (new dashboard with 3000+ customer inputs)
  • Leadership Philosophy: Provide a "systems view" to employees, share investor-level insights appropriately, and maintain authenticity during difficult decisions

Apply to be in my next Learning Leader Circle - https://learningleader.com/leadership-circles/

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

Notes:

Key Learnings

• The Mad Scientist Emotional Profile – High achievers typically have both high positive and high negative affect. "Hustlers, hard workers, strivers, entrepreneurs, ambitious people, they're in that quadrant of high positive, high negative affect." This creates intensity but requires management of negative emotions.
• Dangerous Negative Affect Management – People try to manage high negative affect through alcohol, excessive internet use/pornography, and workaholism. "The isms, the addictions, they're almost all negative affect management techniques."
• Two Best Ways to Manage Negative Affect:
  1. Faith, Spirituality, Philosophy - "Every day, go deep" into transcendent practices
  2. Physical Exercise - "Go pick up heavy things" - resistance training moderates negative emotions
• Arthur's 4:30 AM Protocol – Wakes at 4:30, works out 4:45-5:45, attends mass 6:30-7:00, then has high-protein breakfast with dark coffee at 7:45 for 4 hours of peak creative focus. "I get four hours of creative concentration with maximum dopamine."
• Exercise Reduces Unhappiness, Doesn't Create Happiness – "Working out hard... moderates negative affect. It makes you less unhappy" rather than directly increasing positive emotions.
• The Failure Journal Method – Write down failures/disappointments, return after 3 weeks to note learnings, return after 2 more months to identify good things that resulted. This installs learning in the prefrontal cortex rather than letting it "float around limbically."
• Early Success Can Be Dangerous – Scholars rejected for early research grants outperformed those with early success. "Much better is when you do the work and build yourself up... be a wholesaler before you become a retailer."
• Management Doesn't Provide Flow – "There's one kind of job where you don't get flow, and that's management... you're getting jerked from thing to thing to thing." Being CEO was "satisfying, but not enjoyable."
• Intelligence Must Serve Others – "Intelligence is just another gift... whether or not it makes you happier depends on whether or not you're using it to make other people happier." Denigrating others for lower intelligence indicates misusing your gift.
• The Arrival Fallacy – Olympic gold medalists often experience depression after winning because positive emotion comes from progress toward goals, not achieving them. "Your positive emotion doesn't exist to give you a permanent good day."
• Two Midlife Crisis Solutions:
  1. Focus on what age gives you rather than takes away
  2. Choose subtraction over addition - appreciate what you no longer have to do
• Making Changes Stick Requires Three Elements:
  1. Understand the science - Know why something works
  2. Change your habits - Actually implement different behaviors
  3. Teach it - Explain it to others to cement learning in the prefrontal cortex
• The Happiness Formula – "Use things, love people, worship the divine" instead of the natural impulses to "love things, use people, and worship yourself."

Multi-generational Living Benefits – Arthur lives with adult children and grandchildren: "The research is clear that the closer you are to your grandchildren... the better it is for everybody."

Quotes:

• "I get four hours of creative concentration with maximum dopamine in my prefrontal cortex... ordinarily I would get an hour and a half, two hours of real clarity."
• "The isms, the addictions, they're almost all negative affect management techniques."
• "Working out hard... makes you less unhappy. The research is very clear."
• "Being the boss isn't that fun. It just isn't."
• "I have carefully accounted for all of my days of happiness. They add up to 14." (Emir of Cordoba)
• "What's first prize in a pie eating contest? The answer is pie. So I hope you like pie."
• "Beware the corner office boys. Beware the corner office."
• "Use things, love people, worship the divine."
• "Watch one, do one, teach one." (Harvard Medical School)
• "Don't trust your impulses. Your impulses are to love things, use people, and worship yourself."

Life Lessons

• Develop Daily Discipline Early - A Consistent morning routine with exercise and spiritual practice creates optimal brain chemistry for peak performance throughout the day.
• Manage High Achievement Personality - If you're a driven person, recognize you likely have high negative affect that needs healthy management through exercise and transcendent practices.
• Reframe Career Setbacks - Early failures often build stronger foundations than early successes. Use disappointments as learning opportunities through systematic reflection.
• Question Management Ambitions - Consider whether you enjoy management or just want the status/money. Management roles inherently provide less flow and enjoyment.
• Use Intelligence to Serve Others - Your cognitive gifts should lift others up, not put them down. Intelligence without service leads to unhappiness.
• Focus on Progress, Not Arrival - Derive satisfaction from forward momentum in meaningful work rather than achieving specific goals that won't provide lasting happiness.
• Embrace What Age Gives - In life transitions, focus on new capabilities and freedoms rather than what you're losing or leaving behind.
• Teach What You Learn - The most effective way to cement new habits and insights is to explain them to others. Teaching accelerates your own learning.
• Choose Subtraction - Happiness often comes from eliminating negative elements (bad meetings, toxic relationships) rather than adding more positive ones.
• Build Multi-Generational Relationships - Prioritize time with family across generations. The research strongly supports benefits for all parties.
• Exercise for Mental Health - View physical training as medication for negative emotions rather than just physical fitness.
• Cultivate Transcendent Practices - Whether religious, philosophical, or spiritual, daily engagement with something larger than yourself moderates negative emotions and provides meaning.

Time Stamps:

00:10 Arthur's Fitness and Health Routine

02:01 Link Between Fitness and Happiness

04:03 Managing Negative Emotions

06:23 Morning Routines

13:24 The Importance of Failure

22:26 The Reality of Promotions and Leadership

27:56 The Power of Intelligence: A Double-Edged Sword

28:28 Using Gifts to Spread Happiness

29:20 The Impact of Helping Others

33:28 Avoiding the Arrival Fallacy

36:36 Redefining Retirement and Midlife

47:39 The Importance of Teaching and Learning

51:28 Life Advice

53:01 EOPC (End of the Podcast Club)

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

Shaka Sengor spent 19 years in prison for killing a man. He’s transformed his life through not making excuses and taking full ownership of his decisions. Now, he’s a New York Times best-selling author who has been called a “soul igniter” by Oprah. His latest book is called How to Be Free.

Notes:

• • The Permanence of Split-Second Decisions – At 17, shot three times on a Detroit corner. At 19, he killed a man in a conflict after creating a narrative that he would "shoot first." Sentenced to 17-40 years for second-degree murder. "I try to teach young people about understanding the permanence of a 30-second decision."
  • Books as Portals to Freedom – Read over 1,500 books during 19-year incarceration, starting with street literature (Pimp, Black Gangster) as a gateway to philosophy (Plato, Marcus Aurelius). "Books allowed me to escape in the most literal sense... a portal into other worlds."
  • Prison Mentors Changed Everything – Lifers became his guides: "These are men serving life sentences who came equipped with wisdom about what's on the other side... they guided me to books that shattered old narratives and opened possibilities."
  • Reading Creates Writing Excellence – Speed-reading skill from age 8 (learned during punishments with encyclopedias) combined with voracious prison reading, led to becoming a NY Times bestselling author. "You have to be a practitioner of the craft every day."
  • Journaling as Transformation Tool – "It was the most healing experience I've ever had to speak to my truth, speak to the pain points." Uses 20 different journals, writes everywhere - planes, shower thoughts on phone, margins of books.
  • Hidden Prisons We All Carry – "The most powerful prisons aren't the ones made of concrete and steel. They're the ones we carry with us, built from grief, anger, shame, trauma." Everyone has internal prisons that can be opened.
  • Vulnerability as Strength, Not Manipulation – Authentic vulnerability vs. weaponized oversharing. "Human beings have this innate ability to suss out the truth. Authenticity and vulnerability is the super unlock... being true to your center."
  • Community Through Shared Truth – Prison taught extreme friendship criteria: "Are they willing to serve a life sentence for you or die for you?" Now applies accountability standards: showing up consistently, being loyal to family first.
  • Violence Born from Fear – "Reactionary violence is typically born out of fear, being afraid." Prison taught him to see "the child in people" who are acting out, leading to empathy instead of escalation.
  • Voluntary Hardship Builds Resilience – Monthly 3-day fasts in solitary confinement prepared him for food deprivation punishment. "None of us get through life without suffering... that extra hour a week can change your life's outcomes."
  • Composure Through Self-Awareness – Developed through journaling about times he wasn't composed. "Once you've written it down, you own it. When you own it, you can control it. When you can control it, it's easy to become composed."
  • Remove All Excuses – Florence Nightingale quote: "I never gave or took any excuse." Despite a felony record, a violent crime conviction, and 20 years in prison, he chose to "lead a great life" by removing every excuse.
  • The Ben Horowitz Friendship – Unlikely brotherhood with VC billionaire, starting from Oprah's introduction, bonding over music and culture until 3 AM conversations. Shows authentic relationships transcend backgrounds.
• Quotes:
  • "I try to teach young people about understanding the permanence of a 30-second decision."
  • "I was in prison before I stepped foot in a cell, and I was free before they ever let me out."
  • "The most powerful prisons aren't the ones made of concrete and steel. They're the ones we carry with us."
  • "Books allowed me to escape... a portal into other worlds."
  • "Once you've written it down, you own it. When you own it, you can control it."
  • "I never gave or took any excuse." (Florence Nightingale)
  • "Master your thinking, master your destiny."
  • "Violence is typically born out of fear, being afraid."
  • "If you can see the child in the person that's acting out... it equips you to have more empathy."
  • "None of us gets through life without suffering. At some point, we're all gonna go through adversity."
  • "I chose to lead a great life... I removed every excuse."
• Life Lessons:
  • Face Your Internal Prisons – Identify the shame, anger, grief, and trauma that create mental prisons. Recognize that these have doors that can be opened through conscious work
  • Use Reading as Escape and Growth – Books provide mental freedom regardless of physical circumstances. Start with what interests you, then expand to broader learning.
  • Practice Voluntary Hardship – Choose difficult challenges (fasting, extra work, taking stairs) to build resilience for inevitable adversity you don't choose.
  • Journal for Self-Awareness – Write down thoughts, patterns, and reactions to own and control them. Use various methods - handwritten, voice memos, and margins of books.
  • Build Authentic Community – Surround yourself with people who will hold you accountable and tell you the truth. Apply the highest standards to friendship selection.
  • Transform Fear into Empathy – When facing conflict, look for the "child" in the other person. Understanding their fear reduces your reactionary responses.
  • Develop Composure Through Practice – Review past moments of losing control to build awareness. Use this knowledge to respond rather than react in future situations.
  • Remove All Excuses – Whatever your circumstances, choose to pursue greatness rather than accepting limitations. The past doesn't define the future unless you let it.
  • Share Your Truth Vulnerably – Authentic storytelling about pain and growth helps others escape their own prisons. Vulnerability is strength when used to serve others.
  • Create Evidence of Resilience – Completing self-imposed challenges builds confidence for handling external adversities. Each victory creates proof you can handle hard things.
  • Choose Your Narrative – You can change the story handed down to you. Reject limiting beliefs about what's possible based on background or circumstances.
• Apply to be part of my Learning Leader Circle

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver.

My guest: Michelle “Mace” Curran is a combat veteran, former fighter pilot, and only the second woman in history to fly as the Lead Solo for the Thunderbirds, the U.S. Air Force’s elite demonstration squadron. Now on a new mission, she’s using her story to inspire others. She is the best-selling author of The Flipside: How to Invert Your Perspective and Turn Fear Into Your Superpower.

• How to run "debrief" so that giving and getting feedback becomes embedded in your culture.
• The biggest mistake Michelle made when she became a new fighter pilot, and what you can learn from it.
  • Early Exposure to Male-Dominated Environments – Michelle's dad took her hunting with guys starting at age 7, teaching her she "belonged in any room" she wanted to pursue. This early experience prepared her for being 1 of only 2% female fighter pilots.
  • Parents Who Believed in Wild Dreams – Parents worked multiple jobs to afford camps (criminal justice, archaeology) whenever Michelle showed interest in something new. Taught her that opportunities weren't just possibilities - "I could go after it."
  • The Lone Wolf Trap – When struggling in her first squadron, Michelle was afraid to ask questions because she thought it would show she didn't belong. "I wouldn't even ask questions because I felt like asking a question was just so uncomfortable."
  • Three Years of Struggling in Silence – Despite performing well in the air, Michelle spent three years "belly crawling, pulling myself by my fingernails" because she felt pressure to represent all women perfectly.
  • The Fresh Start Power – Moving from Japan to Texas gave her a reset: "No one here knows about my divorce. No one here knows all these struggles I've been going through." Sometimes you need a clean slate to rebuild.
  • Curiosity + Vulnerability = Community – The breakthrough came when fellow pilots asked pointed questions beyond platitudes: "How are you actually doing?" Real curiosity that goes deeper than "let me know if you need anything."
  • The Near Head-On Collision Story – Flying inverted at 500 mph, passing within 80 feet of another jet using only eyeballs for distance measurement. When her student pilot aimed straight at her, she had 2.5 seconds to decide whether to move or hold position.
  • Learning from Mistakes, Not Punishing Them – After the near-collision, Michelle chose teaching over berating: "What is the most productive way we can respond to get the most learning from that?" The student learned faster because he found the boundary.
  • The Debrief Culture Framework – Start with objectives, go through segments systematically, ask "why" five times to find root causes, create specific lesson learned, and share with the entire organization so others don't repeat mistakes.
  • Rank Comes Off in Debriefs – Even generals sit in debriefs led by mid-level captains who are the real tactical experts. "Status comes off" - expertise matters more than hierarchy when analyzing performance.
  • The Teaching-Learning Loop – Moving from student (year 1) to instructor (year 2) creates exponential learning: "Your students will teach you more than you probably learned when you were a student."
  • Time Distortion Under Extreme Stress – During the near-collision, Michelle experienced "the craziest temporal distortion" where "time slows down" but "you can't do anything faster than you normally can."
• Build Competence First, Then Serve Others – Advice for young people: Spend 6-8 years building skills and confidence, then "reach a hand back" to mentor others. Both phases are essential for maximum impact.
• Quotes:
  • "They endlessly believed in every wild dream I set my sights on."
  • "I learned my vocabulary of profanity expanded greatly... but I also learned I could hang in that environment."
  • "I went into it naively thinking that it didn't matter at all... and it's a little bit different as you get into the military."
  • "There's no fear when you're present. Fear is a future thing."
  • "Curiosity plus vulnerability equals community."
  • "What is the most productive way we can respond at this point to get the most learning from that?"
  • "More learning happens in the debrief than actually does during the flight itself."
  • "The egos that people see in Hollywood around fighter pilots... what they don't show is the humility that has to happen behind the scenes."
  • "It's not self-centered to spend that first six to eight years focused on learning and honing skills."
  • "You get to reach a hand back... and it becomes one of the most fulfilling things for you as well."
• Life Lessons:
  • • Expose Children to Challenging Environments Early – Like Michelle's hunting trips, give kids experience in situations where they're the minority or outsider to build confidence.
    • Support Wild Dreams with Action – Don't just say you believe in someone's goals - invest time and money in giving them exposure to those fields.
    • Ask for Help Before You're Drowning – The biggest mistake is thinking asking questions shows weakness. Everyone expects beginners to have questions.
    • Create Psychological Safety for Mistakes – Focus on learning from errors rather than punishing them. The response to mistakes determines future trust and performance.
    • Build Debrief Culture in Your Organization – Set clear objectives, analyze systematically, find root causes, create specific action items, and share lessons broadly.
    • Use Fresh Starts Strategically – Sometimes changing environments gives you the reset needed to implement new behaviors and shed old baggage.
    • Go Beyond Surface-Level Check-ins – Real community comes from curiosity that goes deeper than "how are you?" Be willing to ask uncomfortable follow-up questions.
    • Practice Temporal Awareness Under Stress – In high-stakes situations, your brain may speed up while time seems to slow down. Prepare for this distortion through practice.
    • Separate Expertise from Hierarchy – The most knowledgeable person should lead analysis sessions, regardless of their position in the org chart.
    • Balance Self-Development with Service – Early career should focus on building competence; mid-career should emphasize mentoring others.
    • Accept That High Performance Requires High Standards – Like the Thunderbirds' 70-foot separation at 500 mph, excellence often means operating with minimal margin for error.
• Apply to be part of my Learning Leader Circle

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

My guest: Sam Lessin is a Partner at Slow Ventures, with prior experience as Vice President of Product Management at Facebook and CEO of Drop.io. His career highlights include serving as a key executive at Facebook, leading product management efforts, and successfully co-founding Fin. His current role at Slow Ventures involves investing in innovative startups across various sectors, showcasing his expertise in entrepreneurship and venture capital.

Notes:

• Key Learnings
  • The 4:30 AM Advantage – Sam's father would be at his desk by 4:30 AM every day, saying, "It's easy to look smart if you have a several-hour head start on everyone else." Early work creates compounding advantages over time.
  • Either Be Early or Be Late, Don't Be On Time – Father's wisdom about timing and seasons. Start your career super early to get ahead, or strategically wait and come in later. Timing matters more than perfect preparation.
  • Joy as the Ultimate Competitive Advantage – "I just don't think that in the long run, angry people win." Look for joyful people in hiring and partnerships because joy is sustainable while anger burns out.
  • Type Two Fun Builds Resilience – Type 1 fun is enjoyable while doing it (rollercoaster). Type 2 fun "completely sucks while you're doing it, but there's joy on the other side" (climbing mountains, marathons). Entrepreneurs need Type 2 fun experiences.
  • Practice Voluntary Hardship – Sam ran a sub-3-hour marathon and got a pilot's license not for love of activities, but for "practice moments" of perseverance. Creates evidence that you can handle business adversity.
  • Right Person, Right Opportunity, Right Time – Don't ask "is this a great person?" Ask, "Is it the right person at the right moment?" Success requires all three elements to align, not just talent.
  • Write Publicly for Intellectual Receipts – "If you can't write the check, write me the thesis and timestamp it." Writing creates accountability, proves thinking ability, and builds reputation over time.
  • Nobody Knows What They're Doing – Working at Bain taught Sam that even prestigious companies "have no idea what you're doing." This is liberating—you can figure it out too.
  • Big Things Take Time (Slow Ventures Philosophy) – Most success isn't quick wins. Venmo took "so many turns of the crank." Be patient finding the right wind, then sail fast when you catch it.
  • Embrace Being Wrong Most of the Time – Seed investing means "you're mostly wrong, you mostly lose money." Success comes from being very right occasionally, not being right consistently.
  • The Solana 2000x Return Story – Put in $400K, returned 2000x to LPs. Success came from the intersection of thesis (looking for "Ethereum killer") and relationships (following Raj Gokal through multiple startups).
  • Use Humor and Authenticity as Filters – Slow Ventures website looks like a law firm in tuxedos "on purpose." If you don't think it's funny, "you're not who we want to invest in."
  • Writing Pushes Away Wrong People – "I really like to be not liked by the people I don't want to work with." Authentic writing attracts the right people and repels the wrong ones.
  • Manufacturing Hardship for Privileged Kids – "Tiger Dad" sports culture might be a misguided attempt to create necessary adversity for wealthy children who lack natural hardships.
• I loved the throughline of this whole conversation being about his dad, working exceptionally hard, and having joy and excitement for the journey. Maybe it was the near-death experiences that his dad had that led to that mindset. Regardless, it’s something we can all learn from. We want to be around optimistic people who have joy and love for what they’re doing…
• Nobody knows what they’re doing. We’re all figuring it out as we go. You’ll never learn unless you go out and do the thing. Figure it out as you go. Just get started. And iterate. Learn. Try again. And keep going.
• Advice from Sam – Write publicly. You don’t know what you think until you get your thoughts out of your head onto the page. And if you publish them, you have a record of the journey. Also, you might attract someone to work with. That is how Jack Raines (guest on episode #539) caught Sam’s attention, and now they work together.
• Useful Quotes:
  • "It's easy to look smart if you have a several-hour head start on everyone else."
  • "I just don't think that in the long run, angry people win."
  • "Either be early or be late, don't be on time."
  • "The right question is, is it the right person at the right moment?"
  • "Writing is thinking. If you can't write, you can't think."
  • "I feel like a tenured professor of capitalism—responsible to make a lot of money over the long term by being very right every once in a while with permission to be wrong all the time."
  • "One of the most insulting things you can call someone is a market participant."
  • "The beauty of the internet is so big. The right people find you."
  • "Big things take time."
  • "Life's short. Is this really what you're spending your time on?"
• Apply to be part of my next Learning Leader Circle.

• Time Stamps:

  00:11 Sam’s Dad's Unique Career Path

  00:39 Life Lessons from My Dad

  04:35 The Trade-offs of Hard Work

  06:57 Betting on the Right People

  07:23 The Importance of Joy in Success

  10:39 Overcoming Hardships and Building Resilience

  20:40 My Journey: From Harvard to Bain

  26:06 Joining Facebook and Learning from Mark Zuckerberg

  29:36 Balancing Joy and Competitive Spirit

  30:15 The Story of Rippling and Parker

  31:48 The Solana Investment Journey

  34:33 The Importance of Writing and Public Thought

  41:07 The Philosophy Behind Slow Ventures

  52:54 Advice for Aspiring Venture Capitalists

  55:46 Future Plans

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

My Guest: Ed Latimore is a professional heavyweight boxer, best-selling author, and veteran of the U.S. Army National Guard. He earned a degree in Physics from Duquesne University. Ed has gained recognition for overcoming personal struggles with addiction and poverty. We recorded this at our 2025 Learning Leader Growth Summit in Scottsdale, Arizona. He's the author of Hard Lessons From The Hurt Business. 

Notes:

• Key Learnings
  • • The Heaviest Weight at the Gym is the Front Door – Starting is often the hardest part. "Zero to one is the hardest part" in any endeavor. Once you begin, momentum builds, but that first step requires the most effort.
    • How You Feel is Irrelevant – "How you feel about doing something is irrelevant. If it is vital to your success, you've gotta bump to the wall a bunch of times." Discipline isn't about motivation—it's about doing what's necessary regardless of feelings.
    • Sobriety: The Hardest Fight – 13+ years sober, describing it as "the hardest fight I've ever had." The turning point came during basic training when he built an identity completely free of alcohol for the first time in his adult life.
    • From Being Liked to Being Respected – "When people like you, they want to party with you... When people respect you, you start getting invited back to family events." Shifted focus from seeking approval through partying to earning respect through character.
    • The Baby Shower Revelation – Breakthrough moment when friends showed up with gifts for his unborn child, "all because he is my human." Realized people genuinely cared about him, which became the foundation for believing he mattered.
    • Taking Ownership vs. Playing Victim – "A judge and a jury do not care about my terrible upbringing if I commit a crime." Despite growing up next to a crack house with family addiction issues, I chose accountability over excuses.
    • Net Positive Impact Philosophy – Goal with raising children: "Make sure they are a net positive, they make things better. At the very least, let's make sure they don't mess anything up." Everyone has an impact on the world for better or worse.
    • Practice Until You Can't Forget – Boxing taught the overlearning principle: going beyond basic competency to automatic response. "We practice until we can't forget... Either you get it or you'll make a mistake, and you probably won't make the mistake more than twice."
    • Tolerance for Boredom Builds Excellence – "If you can be bored, you can go really far because a lot of it is just repetition of really basic things." Elite performers master fundamentals through unglamorous repetition.
    • Body Language Shapes Internal State – "You smile, you feel happy... puff up your chest and the testosterone flows." Physical presentation affects how you feel internally and influences others around you.
    • Fear vs. Responsibility Evolution – Early motivation came from fear of embarrassment; current motivation comes from a sense of responsibility to others. Shift from avoiding personal failure to ensuring others are taken care of.
    • Redefining "At Your Best" – Past definition: having enough money, time, and no worries. Current definition: "Everyone in the house is taken care of." Evolution from internal satisfaction to external impact.
    • Strategic Hardship Introduction – For teaching children without trauma: "Introduce hardships strategically and with awareness." Like weight training—incremental challenges build strength; too much too soon causes injury.
• Useful Quotes:
  • "How you feel about doing something is irrelevant. If it is vital to your success, you've gotta bump to the wall a bunch of times."
  • "The heaviest weight at the gym is the front door."
  • "When people like you, they want to party with you... When people respect you, you start getting invited back to family events."
  • "You have an impact on the world, for better or worse, that makes a huge difference in allowing a person to not destroy themselves."
  • "We practice until we can't forget."
  • "If you can be bored, you can go really far."
  • "I've had my ego dragged through the mud a lot."
  • "What do you want your obituary to say? I didn't just dabble."
  • "When you're completely selfless, then you're fearless. It's the 'what's gonna happen to me' that creates the fear."
  • "Everyone's always either walking in love or fear."
  • "I hope my kid remembers that I was a present happy dude."

• Life Lessons:
  • • Discipline Over Mood – Make decisions based on necessity, not feelings. Success comes from identifying what must be done and executing consistently.
    • Identity Building Without Vices – Spend time in environments completely free from your struggles to build new neural pathways and self-concept.
    • Overlearning for Mastery – Practice skills beyond basic competency until they become automatic responses under pressure.
    • Authentic Accountability – Find mentors who "live what they're yelling at you about." Real influence comes from demonstrated behavior, not just words.
    • Incremental Challenge Builds Resilience – Introduce difficulties gradually to build strength rather than overwhelming with too much too soon.
    • Present Moment Parenting – Model calm behavior during stressful situations because children mirror your emotional energy.
    • External Focus Creates Fulfillment – Shift from personal satisfaction to ensuring others are taken care of for a deeper sense of purpose.
    • Childhood Dreams Reveal True Interests – "What did you want to do when you were 10-12?" Often reveals authentic passions before social conditioning.
    • Breaking Generational Cycles – Consciously choose different patterns than your upbringing to create better outcomes for the next generation.
    • Humility Through Struggle – Getting "ego dragged through the mud" builds character and perspective that success alone cannot provide.
    • Luck Recognition Builds Gratitude – "The only difference between you and me is that I was lucky." Understanding the role of circumstances builds empathy.
  •  
• Apply to be part of my next Learning Leader Circle.

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

My Guest: Tim Ferriss is the author of five #1 New York Times bestsellers (including The 4-Hour Work Week, Tools of Titans, and Tribe of Mentors). His podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show, has been listened to more than a billion times. Tim was an early investor in Uber, Shopify, Twitter, Alibaba, and many others. He’s the creator of a new card game called COYOTE.

• Decision making - How can I win even if I lose? He viewed angel investing like his personal MBA. Instead of paying for business school, he invested in companies and learned about business by working with actual businesses. He didn’t expect to make money on those investments. That was just a bonus. Think, “How can I win even if I lose?” Tim won with those investments, regardless of whether he made money or not on them.
• Key Takeaways and Learnings:
  • Parents Who Foster Curiosity – Tim's mother created a "books are always in budget" policy despite tight finances. Used remainder tables at bookstores to expose him to random, off-menu knowledge that sparked lifelong curiosity about unconventional topics.
  • Curiosity-Driven Exploration – When Tim showed interest in marine biology, his mom found Frank Mundus (inspiration for Jaws character), arranged a meeting, and created low-cost adventures like crab fishing with chicken bones to fuel his interests.
  • The Mask You Wear Becomes You – "Be very careful what you pretend to be" - spent years presenting as overly serious to be taken seriously, which created a recursive feedback loop. Now embraces more play and laughter to avoid burnout. 
  • Fiction and Poetry as Life Teachers – Shifted from non-fiction purist to reading more fiction/poetry. Recommends "Ozymandias" as a monthly reminder that all achievements fade: "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings. Look on my works, ye mighty and despair. Nothing beside remains."
  • Internal vs External Scorecards – Money and fame amplify whatever's underneath, like alcohol or power. "If you have certain insecurities or paranoia, all of those are going to be amplified. If you're generous, that's also gonna be the case."
  • Effectiveness Over Efficiency – "Effectiveness is doing the right things, efficiency is doing things well, but doing something well does not make it important." Focus on choosing the right targets rather than optimizing everything.
  • Strategic Slack in Systems – Moved away from filling every 10 minutes. Takes 10 minutes each morning with coffee to read fiction/poetry/meditate to prove "you do not have to front flip out of bed and land in a full sprint."
  • How to Win Even If You Fail – Project selection framework: "How can I win even if I fail?" Focus on relationships built and skills acquired that transfer beyond the project if external metrics don't pan out.
  • The COYOTE Game Philosophy – Created a card game to address the social isolation epidemic. "People don't have a shortage of productivity advice... It's taking some steam out of the system and actually enjoying what you have worked so hard for."
  • Social Bonds as Foundation – "It's the relationships, stupid." Countries rated happiest fundamentally come down to social ties. In-person social interactions are down 70% in certain age groups over the last 10 years.
  • Podcasting as Relationship Building – "My goal is not to have 100% of my audience like any episode... but I do want 10% of my audience to love each episode." The personal is the most universal.
  • Fame's Hidden Costs – With the audience size of major cities comes proportional number of unstable people. "If you have a small village, you're gonna have one village idiot... "How many crazy people are there in New York City?"
  • "Be suspicious of what you want."

•  
• Tim read me the poem by Ozymandias by Percy Bysshe Shelley
• "If more information were the answer, we'd all be billionaires with six-pack abs."
• Be a talent scout - You don’t need a huge network. A+ players in one area know A+ players in others. Seek out people who are great at what they do, regardless of what they do. Study what makes them great at that thing. Then you’ll probably meet other A+ players. Also, it’s on us to strive to be an A+ player at what we do. Be so good at whatever your thing is that other A+ players want to meet you. Tim has been very good at that.
• Quotes:
  • "Be very careful what you pretend to be... the mask you wear often becomes the person you are."
  • "Be suspicious of what you want." (Rumi)
  • "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings. Look on my works, ye mighty and despair. Nothing beside remains."
  • "Effectiveness is doing the right things, efficiency is doing things well, but doing something well does not make it important."
  • "How can I win even if I fail?"
  • "The personal is the most universal."
  • "It's the relationships, stupid."
  • "If more information were the answer, then we'd all be billionaires with six-pack abs."
  • "Follow your curiosity and obsessions with great rigor. Do that and I like your chances."
  • "The superheroes you have in your mind are nearly all walking flaws who've maximized one or two strengths."
  • "You don't need a huge network... the super A+ players tend to know other A+ players."
• Life Lessons:
  • • Cultivate Childhood Curiosity – Create "always yes" policies for learning and exploration. Use constraints (like remainder tables) to discover unexpected interests.
    • Embrace Strategic Experimentation – View life as a series of 6-12-month projects with 2-4 week experiments. Design studies to get feedback, not just chase outcomes.
    • Balance Seriousness with Play – Taking yourself too seriously leads to burnout. Build in recovery phases and "deloading" periods across all life areas.
    • Choose Projects for Learning – Select opportunities based on relationships you'll build and skills you'll acquire, not just potential external rewards.
    • Start With Personal Pain Points – Best opportunities often come from solving problems you personally understand deeply, then expanding adjacent.
    • Build Safety Nets First – Like Arnold's real estate, before acting, create financial/emotional cushions that allow you to say no and wait for right opportunities.
    • Quality Over Quantity in Relationships – Better to have deep connections with fewer people than surface-level networks with many.
    • Morning Rituals Create Calm – Prove to your nervous system you don't have to be frantic by taking 10 minutes each morning for something peaceful.
    • Scratch Your Own Itch – Whether in podcasting, investing, or any pursuit, follow genuine personal interest for sustainable energy and authentic results.
    • Prepare for Success Taxes – Fame and wealth amplify existing traits. Address insecurities and develop strong boundaries before scaling.
    • Value Present Experience – Focus on daily energy in/out rather than constantly deferring happiness to future achievements.
• Apply to be part of my next Learning Leader Circle.

Time Stamps

00:38 Tim's Childhood and Parental Influence

01:15 Curiosity and Lifelong Learning

02:56 Marine Biology and Childhood Adventures

07:06 Influence of Mentors and Teaching Aspirations

08:45 Thoughts on Parenthood and Relationships

12:11 Balancing Seriousness and Humor

25:15 Effectiveness vs. Efficiency

30:50 Creating Slack and Self-Care

34:41 The Importance of Social Bonds and Play

41:07 Meeting a Game-Changing Partner

42:13 The Importance of Analog Social Interaction

42:55 Podcasting: A Platform for Deep Connections

43:30 The Evolution and Challenges of Podcasting

43:47 The Art of Interviewing

49:18 Navigating Fame and Public Exposure

01:04:26 The Philosophy of Risk and Experimentation

01:10:27 Spotting Talent and Following Curiosity

01:20:37 Closing Thoughts and Future Endeavors

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

Guest: Nick Maggiulli is the Chief Operating Officer and Data Scientist at Ritholtz Wealth Management. He is the best-selling author of Just Keep Buying: Proven Ways to Save Money and Build Your Wealth, and his latest book is called The Wealth Ladder. Nick is also the author of OfDollarsAndData.com, a blog focused on the intersection of data and personal finance.

Notes:

• Money works as an enhancer, not a solution: Like salt enhances food flavors, money amplifies existing life experiences but has little value by itself without relationships, health, and purpose. "Money by itself is useless... without friends, family, without your health, it doesn't add much... it enhances all the other parts of life."
• Nick beat his dad’s friends at chess when he was 5 years old because he practiced more than they did. He got more reps. He did the work. It’s not that he was a chess prodigy. He just worked harder than his opponents did. And he still does that today.
  • Practice creates expertise beyond intelligence: At five years old, Maggiulli could beat adults at chess not because he was smarter, but because he had more practice. Consistent effort over time can outcompete raw talent. "I could beat them, not because I was smarter than them, only because I had practiced something... In this very specific realm, I could beat them."
• Consistent writing builds compound advantages: Writing 10 hours every weekend for nine years created opportunities including book deals and career advancement. The discipline of regular practice compounds over time. "I've been writing for nine years... I spend 10 hours a week every single week for almost a decade now, and that helps over time."
• The most expensive thing people own is their ego.
• How do you add value when you're in a job that doesn't have a clear scoreboard (like sales)?
  • Think... What gets accomplished that otherwise wouldn't have without you?
  • Add value through time savings and efficiency: In roles where impact isn't immediately measurable, focus on how much time and effort you save others. Create systems that make your colleagues more efficient. "How do I save our operations team time? How do I save our compliance team time... I'm designing better oars that'll give us 10% more efficiency."
• Money amplifies existing happiness: Research shows that if you're already happy, more money will make you happier. But if you're unhappy and not poor, more money won't solve your problems. "If you're happy already, more money will make you happier... but if you aren't poor and you aren't happy, more money's not gonna do a thing."
• Ego is the most expensive thing people own: Trying to appear wealthier than you are prevents actual wealth building. Focus on substance over status symbols. "People in level three that wanna look like people in level four end up spending so much money to keep up with the Joneses."
• Follow your interests for long-term success: Passion sustains you through inevitable obstacles and rejection. Maggiulli wrote for three years without earning money because he genuinely enjoyed it. "Follow your interest because when you follow your interest, you're more likely to keep going when you face obstacles."
• The "Die with Zero" philosophy, advocated by Bill Perkins, encourages people to prioritize experiences and fulfillment over accumulating maximum wealth, suggesting spending money strategically to maximize lifetime enjoyment.
• Nick defines six levels of wealth based on net worth, ranging from $0 to over $100 million. These levels are: Level 1: $0-$10,000 (paycheck-to-paycheck), Level 2: $10,000-$100,000 (grocery freedom), Level 3: $100,000-$1 million (restaurant freedom), Level 4: $1 million-$10 million (travel freedom), Level 5: $10 million-$100 million (house freedom), and Level 6: $100 million+ (philanthropic freedom). 
  • Nick also notes a shift in asset allocation as one progresses through the levels. In the lower levels, a larger portion of wealth is tied up in non-income-producing assets like cars, while higher levels see a greater emphasis on income-producing assets like stocks and real estate.
  • Wealth strategies must evolve by level: The approach that gets you to level four ($1M-$10M) won't get you to level five ($10M-$100M). Higher wealth levels typically require entrepreneurship or equity ownership. "The strategy that you use to get into level four is not going to be the strategy that gets you out."
  • Know when "enough" is enough: Level four wealth ($1M-$10M) may be sufficient for most people. The sacrifices required to reach higher levels often aren't worth the marginal benefits. "The rational response for an American household once they get into level four is... maybe I take my foot off the gas and just enjoy life more."
• As a data scientist, Nick leverages data to provide business intelligence insights at Ritholtz Wealth Management, where he also serves as Chief Operating Officer. His work involves analyzing data to answer business questions, identify trends, and build predictive models. For example, he might analyze lead conversion rates, client attrition, or investment patterns to inform business decisions.
• Financial independence requires separate identities: Maintain individual financial accounts within marriage for independence and easier asset division. Pool resources for shared expenses while preserving autonomy. "Everyone needs to have their own accounts. They need to have their own money... especially important for women."
• Nick and his wife have a joint + separate bank account(s).
  • Here's how it works:
    • All of your income and your partner’s income flows into this joint account.
    • That income is used to pay for all shared expenses.
    • Any excess left in the account (above a certain threshold) can either be left in the account or distributed equally between you and your partner (to your separate accounts).
• Apply to be part of my Learning Leader Circle
•  

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

Ryan Petersen is the founder and CEO of Flexport, a technology-driven global logistics company. He’s a leading voice in supply chain innovation and has been at the forefront of solving major trade and shipping challenges worldwide.

Notes:

• “Arrogance is its own form of stupidity.”
• The Tweetstorm That Saved Christmas:
  Ryan shares the now-legendary story of how he rented a boat, brought tacos, and took another high-powered CEO with him to tour the Port of Long Beach during the supply chain crisis. His viral Twitter thread sparked immediate action, California Governor Gavin Newsom called within hours, and the policy changed shortly after. A masterclass in “doing the thing.”
• Frontline Obsession & Gemba Walks:
  Why Ryan frequently travels the world (visiting 19 countries last year) to meet employees and customers. He explains the power of Gemba walks, being physically present on the frontlines, and how it shapes his leadership.
• How He Runs Flexport:
  Ryan’s leadership playbook includes:
  • Managing through writing. Every one of his 26 teams writes a six-page memo monthly, followed by deep conversations.
  • Daily conversations with 30-40 employees to stay connected.
  • Living Flexport’s values:
    Empower Clients, Play the Long Game, Act Like an Entrepreneur, Commit to the Vision, Ask Why 5 Times.
• Leadership & Decision-Making:
  He shares his “must-haves” for hiring leaders:
  • Relentless Work Ethic
  • Intellectual Curiosity
  • Humility (“Even wise people are wrong 30% of the time.”)
  • Reliability
  • Charisma
• Lessons from Mentors:
  Ryan talks about advice from Paul Graham (Y Combinator) and Brian Chesky (Airbnb), including how gathering your top leaders in person sparks innovation and alignment.
• Hard Decisions & Mistakes:
  He candidly discusses Flexport’s CEO transition gone wrong, hiring Dave Clark from Amazon, and what he learned from that difficult chapter.
• Personal Growth & Life Philosophy:
  Ryan shares his approach to lifelong learning, inspired by Charlie Munger and René Girard. He emphasizes reading widely, asking questions, and choosing role models wisely.
  • "We’re all imitative people. Choose your role models wisely."
• “We’re making global trade as simple and reliable as flipping a light switch.”
• “Even wise people are wrong 30% of the time. You must stay humble.”

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. Go to www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

Guest: Blaine Anderson is a dating coach and matchmaker. She’s helped more than 3,000 happy clients attract and build long-term relationships. Her work has been featured in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, and she earned a deal with Mark Cuban on Shark Tank.

Notes:

• Someone asked Charlie Munger… How do I get a great wife? Deserve one. The best way to find a good spouse is to deserve one, he often said. In business, this translates to working hard and behaving with integrity consistently over time. “To get what you want, you have to deserve what you want.”
• What is the #1 reason you don’t get a second date? You talk about yourself too much. 
  • When you go out to eat with someone, what percentage of the time are you talking? Aim to talk 30% and listen 70%. The reason we don’t get the second date or the follow-up meeting with the prospect is because we are talking too much.
  • Pull conversational threads: Avoid rapid-fire questioning by following up on answers with related questions. Share brief personal connections to create dialogue rather than interrogation. "You want to pull the conversational thread... ask a follow-up question about that same thing. That's where you can start having a conversation."
• Marketing your trajectory matters: People want to know you're going places. Share your goals, dreams, and aspirations authentically to demonstrate upward momentum. "You want to find the balance of sharing things about yourself that indicate you are on an upward trajectory... from a place of getting to know one another."
• Nice guys need boundaries: Being overly accommodating to people you barely know signals weakness. Hold boundaries and don't put others before yourself too quickly. "The general problem with the nice guy is he's putting other people before himself, including people he doesn't know very well."
• Confidence must be genuine: Authentic confidence comes from actually becoming confident through mastery, not just faking body language. Get genuinely good at something. "You have to become that... get really good at something... picking something in your life and getting really good at it is gonna help you build confidence."
• Don't rush to the close: Whether in dating or sales, focus on building connection and trust before asking for commitment. The close is the period at the end of a long sentence. "If you approach a woman or you approach a deal and you're just trying to get to the final step... you're going to rush through a lot of the important and essential steps."
• High-value people are in demand: Present yourself as someone others want to be around. People are naturally drawn to those who appear sought-after by others. "We want the thing that's in demand. We want the thing that other humans recognize as high value."
• Genuine curiosity creates connection: Being authentically interested in others' experiences is a powerful form of respect and love. Ask questions that take conversations deeper. "Your underlying emotion is important... becoming a genuinely curious person who is interested in meeting another human."
• Physical fitness affects confidence: Looking and feeling good about yourself impacts how you show up in every interaction. Invest in your physical health. "You gotta feel good about how you look... who wants to partner up with a slug? Nobody."
• "You should always be dating your partner, whether it's your first date, your 40th date, or you've been married for 40 years."'
• "The close is the period at the end of a very long sentence."
• "Deserve one." - Charlie Munger's advice on getting a great spouse
• Women want 3 things - social status, to be desired, flirty/fun… They want an optimist.
• If things aren’t going well, look in the mirror. Take accountability.
• Her Twitter profile picture. Show the whites of your eyes. Smile. She has two tattoos. Omega is her middle name. Cactus for Tucson, AZ.
• How to build genuine confidence? Get good at something. Become an expert. Work really really hard. Be in great physical shape. It’s hard to be confident if you don’t like how you look. Sounds harsh, but it’s true. Confidence comes from evidence. Create some evidence for youself by consistently working hard and getting great at something. That confidence will ooze out of you wherever you go.
• Shark Tank. Scary, anxious, nervous. Did a deal with Mark Cuban.
• Advice - If you’re building a business, listen to what your customers want. What does your ideal client want? Build that.

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for all show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. Go to www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

Anthony Scaramucci served as the White House Director of Communications for President Donald Trump from July 21 to July 31, 2017. He was at Harvard Law School with President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama. He’s the founder and managing partner of SkyBridge Capital. And he’s the founder and Chairman of the SALT conference. 

• Leadership through service: True leadership isn't about personal glory but about making others better and helping them succeed in their roles. Derek Jeter exemplified this by never caring about personal statistics, only team success. "If you're on the team, it's not about me, right? It's about you. How am I gonna make you better? Or how am I gonna make you feel good about your role? How am I gonna get you to think that I'm here to help you?"

• Flexibility and decision-making under pressure: Football taught Scaramucci the importance of reading situations quickly and making audibles at the line of scrimmage - skills that translate directly to business and life leadership. "You can't just say, okay, here's the game plan, right? Because that's what Mike Tyson says, right? You have the plan until you get punched in the face, or all battle plans go by the wayside with contact with the enemy."

• Resilience through adversity: Getting "your ass kicked" early in life builds the resilience needed for future challenges in business and politics. Early defeats teach you how to bounce back from failure. "That's called resilience, right? You gotta get over that... That's how you gotta get your ass kicked. Here I was... and I just remember feeling so puny... So how you gotta get over that."

• The confidence battle starts within: The first fight in life is with yourself - believing you're good enough and worthy to compete. Henry Ford's principle applies: "If you think you can or you can't, you are right." "The first fight is with yourself. Am I good enough? Am I worthy? Can I get to the game? Can I believe in myself enough so that I'm standing next to someone else who believes in themselves that I compete?"

• Accountability in relationships: When Scaramucci's marriage was in crisis, taking full accountability for his mistakes rather than deflecting blame was crucial to rebuilding the relationship. "I owe my wife Deirdre, a debt of gratitude for actually really loving me because I was off the rails on a few things... she's like, Hey, I'm not having this, so if you love me, get your shit together."

• Life coaching vs. therapy approach: Life coaching focuses on progression and future action ("What are we doing today to be better?") rather than regression into past issues. "I feel that therapy is a regression. Life coaching is a progression... forget about the past. What the hell are you gonna do? What are we doing today to make yourself a better person?"

• Forgiveness as liberation: Choosing to forgive both others and yourself removes the "millstone of regret" that weighs you down and prevents forward progress. "I can take that millstone of regret and leave it behind me, take it off of my neck and leave it behind me... human frailty and not judging it is not just you judging others, but also yourself."

• The comfortable outsider advantage: Being comfortable with your outsider status while still being able to operate in elite circles provides authentic confidence and relatability across all social levels. "I am a comfortable outsider. I'm not an insider... but I'm comfortable with it. You know, like guys like Trump or Rudy, they're uncomfortable. Outsiders... But I'm a comfortable outsider. I don't need to do that."

• Intellectual curiosity + neuroplasticity: Combining genuine curiosity about others with the ability to adapt and change allows you to move successfully between different social and professional circles. "Find your superpower... I think your superpower is very similar to my superpower... intellectual curiosity. And so if you can blend intellectual curiosity with neuroplasticity, meaning you can adopt and change... then you can move in various circles."

Pivot for survival: Successful businesses and careers require constant reinvention. SkyBridge's conference business and pivot to Bitcoin were survival strategies that became major successes. "We were going outta business... This was an accidental survivor strategy. This was a pivot that we were making in order to stay in business. This was not some mastermind plan."

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. Go to www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

Jim Murphy is a mental performance coach for some of the most accomplished professional athletes in the world. Formerly a professional baseball player, he now focuses on helping others. You may have heard of him if you were watching the Philadelphia Eagles' playoff run last season, and star wide receiver AJ Brown was reading Jim’s book Inner Excellence on the sideline between offensive series.

Notes:

• The first 11 days of 2025, Inner Excellence (originally published 16 years ago) sold about 25 copies… What happened on January 12? AJ Brown was shown on TV reading it in between offensive series. It then sold 200,000 copies in 20 days.
• Fear is a concern about the future.
• Give the best of what you have today. Be present.
• Heart, will, spirit = the deepest part of you
• When we’re at our best, there’s no thought of self.
• 5 greatest needs
  • That we have value
  • Love and acceptance
  • Integrity
  • Purpose beyond self
  • Growth
• Dick Vermiel’s coaching style - Coach the person first. Then the sport (or the thing you’re doing). The same is true for any leadership role. People won’t care what you think unless they know you actually care about them.
• 4 Daily Goals
  • Give the best of what you have today
  • Be present. Fear is a future thing.
  • Be grateful
  • Focus on what you can control
• Anxiety is a mind with too many thoughts and concerns. Need to face our fears.
• 3 Key Areas:
  • Belief - expand what you think is possible.
  • Freedom - play like a kid (let it rip).
  • Focus - Be fully present
• Status vs amazing experiences. Love is the most powerful force in the universe. Joy comes from love. Love can come from weaknesses.
• Ego - Always comparing, creates a fear of screwing up
• Rory McIlroy – Didn’t care if he made the cut at the US Open. Played free and made a few birdies at the end of the second round and made the cut.
• Jim's Dedication: “My father, Donald C. Murphy. The one who greatly influenced me to think deeply about what to love and what to let go of. I love you. See you soon.” His dad worked on the Apollo 11 mission. The first lunar landing.
• Grade yourself on presence. 4 daily goals. Rate them 1-10. Anxiety is a sign that someone isn’t present.
• Jim has always struggled with being self-centered.
• Be non-judgmental. Share unconditional love.
• Ricky Scruggs - Former teammate and roommate in pro baseball. He invited me to the desert in 2003. Led me to take the risk to leave the safety of family and friends to pursue a meaningful life.
• What about for those people who say your stuff is "woo-woo?"  “I get paid to help people perform better. And that’s what happens when you work with me.”
• “My whole life, I obsessed about being a superstar, being rich and famous. What I now realize is what I’ve always wanted was to feel fully alive. I’ve realized since that what I always really wanted was to feel fully alive. That’s what Inner Excellence is about. Pursuing a full life and letting everything else be added. We’re created for relationships."
• Among Jim's strengths is that he listens and doesn’t judge. That’s what many people want. “I have this one client, a pro athlete. He said, ‘Jim, I smoke, I gamble, I drink. I do all these things, but I don’t think you do all those things. Do you think we can work together?’ I said, ‘If you don’t judge me for not doing those things, I won’t judge you for doing those things.’ We became great friends.”
• Resonance Key #3 - Love Your Opponent. “The opponent is not the enemy– they’re our partner in the dance.” – Phil Jackson

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver.

www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

Larry Connor is an entrepreneur, non-profit activist investor, and adventurist. In business, he is best known for founding The Connor Group, a real estate investment firm, and growing it from $0 to $5 billion in assets. Outside of work, Larry lives an adventurous life. Within a 12 month period Larry did something that had never been done before. He completed 3 dives to the deepest part of the ocean (the Mariana Trench) AND traveled to the International Space Station as an astronaut. In addition to that, Larry is a private pilot and was part of a Le Mans racing team that has won championships.

• “At The Connor Group, we don’t have, and never will have, a mission statement. We have culture. When you have the latter, the former is not necessary.”
• The culture is built on 5 core values, on which we don’t compromise:
  • Do the right thing
  • People count
  • Live the Circle of Success
  • Think long-term, not short-term
  • Relentless pursuit of excellence
• “We exist, quite simply, to be the best.”
• “We don’t hire for experience. We don’t hire for knowledge. We don’t care where you went to school. We hire for personality traits. Especially in leadership roles. You have to have the big 6. You have to have all 6. They are:
  • 1. Be able to motivate and inspire others.
  • 2. Self-accountability and ability to hold others accountable in an honest, direct manner.
  • 3. Organizational multi-tasking. The speed of the game is fast.
  • 4. Cultural fit.
  • 5. Grit. Doing the thing that others say are impossible.
  • 6. Work orientation. If you want to come in at 8:30, take a 90-minute lunch, and leave at 4:30, The Connor Group is not for you.
• “People never outperform their own self-image. So aim high!”
• “Mediocre people don’t like high achievers and high achievers don’t like mediocre people.”
• “By definition, if you want to be exceptional, you have to be different. If you’re like everybody else, you’re going to end up like everybody else.”
• In 2008, Larry said, “We simply decided we weren’t going to participate in the global recession.”
• 3 P’s - People, Plan, Process
• People’s performances are measured through daily, weekly, and monthly IAMs (Individual Accountability Meetings). Clear expectations and clear management.
• When I asked him about becoming a billionaire, Larry immediately jumped to the impact he’s having on others. “There are far more important standards than money. How well have you treated your associates? Have you made them better people? How much have you done to help other people? Have you made a difference?” All of that is available to all of us regardless of us being a billionaire or not.
• The company headquarters are next door to a hangar that houses a working model of the “Wright B Flyer” - The Wright Brothers’ first production airplane.

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

​The Arena​ gives you direct access to some of the most respected coaching minds in the world. Led by HOFer Sherri Coale, Brook Cupps, Geron Stokes, and Eli Leiker. Leaders who have built winning programs, led at the highest levels, and shaped the next generation of elite performers. The Arena is a Learning Leader Circle for Coaches only. We are opening applications now for our first cohort. If you'd like to be part of it, ​CLICK HERE to apply​. Once the cohort is full, we will be pausing applications.

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver.

www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

• In Patient Pursuit of Greatness – In the spring of 2012, General McChrystal was teaching a leadership class at Yale. That’s when he met Tony Reno. He said about the meeting, “Not many things materially affect my trajectory. But this time was different. What was different? Coach Reno.”
• The goal of the program: “Leave the jersey better than you found it.” 
• The team creed, a pledge written by players on Team 142 (the 2014 squad), as they do at the start of every practice: “I vow to believe in the process, I am mentally and physically tough, I compete with passion and overcome any challenges. I stand tall alongside my family at all times, I challenge my brother, believe in him, hold him accountable. As I create my own path I always put team before myself, I strive for excellence on and off the field, I hold myself to a higher standard. I am a Yale football player.”
  • Standards - Every player must recite the creed. The younger players are coached by the older players.
• The brick tradition - At each practice, one player presents his brick, then adds it to the others in the tunnel-- a visual reminder of the team’s solidarity. Reno instituted the tradition to build camaraderie through candid reflection.
  • Hero, Hometown, Hardship, Highlight. Someone who has impacted you. One word for the season.
• His players went to bat for him. On December 28, Casey Gerald '09, a cornerback, and 63 other former players sent a letter endorsing Coach Reno's candidacy to athletic director Tom Beckett, and later to president Richard Levin and provost Peter Salovey. 12 days later, he earned the job.
• Gettysburg Retreat: Yale's football team takes an annual retreat to Gettysburg with McChrystal to focus on leadership, bonding, and team culture.
• Presidential Leadership - Lead people, but don’t do it for them.
• When his players host recruits, they will tell Coach Reno if their character aligns with being a Yale football player. 
• Coach Reno names a player of the day for each practice. The one who lives out their values and the Yale football player creed.
• Life/Career advice - Help you become the best version of yourself in all you do. Make you an elite leader. Maximize you as a football player. Help you find your passion.

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. 

www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

Katie Gatti Tassin is the author of the "Money with Katie" newsletter and podcast, both acquired by Morning Brew in 2022. Katie provides fresh personal finance advice with a unique outlook, coupled with deep, self-taught knowledge.  Before founding Money with Katie in 2020, she worked professionally in marketing and user experience design for Southwest Airlines, Dell Technologies, and Meta. She’s the author of Rich Girl Nation: Taking Charge of Our Financial Futures.

Notes:

• If you’re not curious about it, you’re not going to give it your all. But if you are, you can become relentless. Chase your curiosity and obsessions with great rigor. That passion and love for whatever the thing is can lead to big opportunities in your life.
• Do you want 100% of a grape or 25% of a watermelon? Advice Katie got when she was considering accepting the offer to be acquired by Morning Brew.
• The importance of having a coach. Katie talked about the life-changing impact her coach, Elizabeth, has had on her. Ambitious, motivated people who have high standards need help, too. In fact, maybe as much as anyone. It’s worth it to invest in yourself and find a person to talk with 1 on 1.
• Parents - High expectations, straight A's or bust. Driven, hard to turn it off.
• The Morning Brew acquisition - Money with Katie. Worked at Meta and did Money with Katie at the same time. Left for the acquisition. Austin Rief (CEO) DM'd her on Twitter and made an offer during their first 30-minute conversation.
  • Big lesson - Your IP is everything.
• Book Dedication - “To the anonymous guy who 'works in finance' that used to relentlessly comment on my nascent website in 2018, urging me to quit writing about money and 'keep it to myself. I hope you’re well."
• Acknowledgments - “Mom, for all those quiet days spent sitting on the floor of the Lents branch library or wandering the stacks at Barnes & Noble. Dad, for spending your time after work at the kitchen table with me every time my homework involved numbers, and for being my number one fan.”
• How much money do you need to be financially free? Katie breaks down the 4% rule, why it works, and how it can be personalized and optimized for each person’s retirement needs.
• High Standards Can Be a Double-Edged Sword – "I am an incredibly driven person because of the people who raised me... But I also have a really hard time with turning it off. I can become very narrow-minded and obsessive about the things that I'm doing."
• Turn Critics Into Fuel – Katie dedicated her book to an anonymous finance professional who told her to "quit writing about money" and "keep it to herself." Sometimes the best fuel comes from those who doubt you.
• Money Transparency in Families Creates Advantages – Katie's parents openly discussed finances, including sharing their income. "I never really thought of it as something that was taboo... made it a lot easier for me now as an adult."
• The Power of Life Coaching for Entrepreneurs – After initial skepticism, Katie found a life coach who told her, "You are way too in your head. You are way too concerned with the minutia. You don't even know where you wanna go yet."
• Intellectual Property is Everything in Negotiations – "Your intellectual property is the most valuable thing that you are negotiating over... The primary value of the thing that I'm spending 60 hours a week working on needs to be accruing to me."
• The 25x Rule for Financial Freedom – Based on the 4% withdrawal rule: "Once you have accumulated 25 times your annual spending... You should theoretically be able to use 4% of that amount every year, withdraw it, and live on it."
• Marriage Changes Everything Financially – "Marriage is the most legally significant thing you will do in your life other than die, and you don't get so much as a leaflet about how your rights have just changed."
• Prenups Aren't About Distrust – They're about legal protection, especially for anyone who might leave the workforce. "If you spend decades out of the workforce... You need to ensure that if your partnership ends someday... You will have a certain amount of income."
  
• Desire Drives Excellence – "If you're not curious about it, you are not going to give it your all... There is such a difference in outcomes. If I am really into something that I'm working on, it's gonna be second to none."

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes

This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver.

www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader

Kirk Herbstreit is the voice of college football. A former Centerville High School and Ohio State University Quarterback, Kirk has been the lead Analyst for ESPN’s College Gameday since 1996. He calls the biggest games in college football on Saturday nights, and he broadcasts the college National Championship. Beyond college football, Kirk is also the lead analyst for Thursday Night Football on Amazon Prime Video. Kirk has been nominated for 19 Sports Emmy Awards and has won 5 times. This conversation was recorded in front of about 300 people in Centerville, Ohio. Kirk’s dog Peter was with us on stage when he wasn’t wandering around in the audience.

• Kirk's emotional moment after Ohio State's national championship was about his authentic connection to Coach Day, his son (who was on the team), and all the players. "I try so hard to be impartial. I try so hard to be just objective and fair. It's almost like the culmination of just a release."
  • Showing authentic emotion and humanity makes leaders more relatable and trustworthy, not weaker.
• Bob Gregg and Ron Ullery's impact: "They didn't tear your knees out, but they just made sure as a 16, 17, 18-year-old that you knew this ain't about you. It's about us." This foundation created a work ethic that translates across all of life.
• The most prepared broadcaster in the world - "When I started in 1996 on college game day, unless you were a Big 10 fan, you had no idea who I was. So my idea of trying to build my brand was they're gonna know me from my work ethic."
• "They're gonna know me from my work ethic. They're gonna know me like, damn, I don't know who that dude is, but he seems to know what he's talking about."
  • "I prepare a hundred percent, and I use 20% for all three shows." Over-preparation creates confidence and the ability to handle any direction conversations might go.
  • When you're not the most naturally gifted, becoming the most prepared person in the room creates a competitive advantage.
• High School Football Builds Life Skills – "I'm such an advocate for high school football because of my own experience... It's about what these guys are doing... simple old school values, like hard work and perseverance and facing adversity."
• "I could choose to be embarrassed of who I was on national TV, or choose to have a bit of a chip on my shoulder. And I was kind of a chip on my shoulder guy my whole life."
  • Feeling underestimated can fuel extraordinary preparation and performance when channeled constructively.
• Deal with Imposter Syndrome when he started broadcasting NFL games for Amazon on Thursday nights: "I didn't even go to an NFL camp, and here I am calling NFL Games as the expert game analyst. And so, and I'm working with freaking Al Michaels."
  • "I don't deserve your respect in my brain until I earn it."
• College Football's Current Crisis – "The players went from our era. You had no say to now they have all to say... It's like the world is upside down right now when it comes to that aspect of it."
• "Who fixes it? The NCAA doesn't fix it... No one's worried about the global view of the sport. They're worried about their region... who's in charge? No one's the boss."
  • "They're great players, but they're a dime a dozen. Like you're on a conveyor belt as a player. There's other players coming right behind you."
• Kirk supports true name, image, likeness marketing but opposes pay-for-play: "I am a fan of, if Jeremiah Smith becomes Jeremiah Smith after he gets there... if he can make money in marketing... But not, a guy is over at Bowling Green... and LSU needs a left guard and they're just like, Hey, how much does it take?"
• "These coaches are a little bit hesitant on how hard they're gonna be on these guys because they don't wanna believe. Imagine being a coach and you're worried about, is this guy gonna leave if I really do what I want to do with him?"
• Mental Health Through Faith – "For me, it's my faith... daily devotional prayer and really trying to connect helps me... having very honest conversation with family and friends and opening up."
• The Value of Chosen Hardship – My perspective: "I think you gotta keep doing that stuff... choose to do really hard things every day to prove to myself that I can keep doing hard things so that when adversity strikes, I'm prepared."
• Generational Empathy – "This generation, I can't imagine going through what they go through, whether it's Snapchat and middle school... just everybody being in your business and everything online."
• The Lee Corso Legacy – "He was hot takes before we knew what Hot Takes were... our relationship really changed was off air... he was a really good listener... like Yoda or like Don Corleone."
  • The best mentoring relationships evolve from one-directional learning to mutual care and support.
• The Lunatic Fringe - "There's 90% of Ohio State fans that whether they win or they lose, they're proud of 'em... every fan base has that 10% that we're all embarrassed of."